Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered. Many of us recognize that we want or even need change when it comes to our relationships, But are we actually willing to do the work that it takes to make this happen? Joining me today is Dr. Layne Norton, and we're chatting about getting back to the basics. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered lane. So nice to have you here today. I'm so excited to chat with you.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I think I appreciate being on here. And like I said, I've actually followed your content for a long time. That's super helpful for me.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, I appreciate that and your content as well and what I love about it and you and I have discussed quite a bit leading up to this, is your focus on not well, really calling out the bullshit, calling out the quick fixes, calling out like these people who claim to have the magic cure, which I love from even a relationship and mental health perspective, because so often I have clients saying, you know, like, just tell me what to do to fix it. Just just how do I make it better? And it's like, Hey, sorry, but it's, you know, the work you're going to have to do.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah. No, I mean, I see so many parallels between, like my my doctorate in nutritional sciences. I think the idea of accountability and self-responsibility is really unpalatable to some people because it's, you know, it becomes kind of you're intently aware that like, well, some of this stuff is my fault. A lot of this stuff is my fault. And I think the better way to think about that is if it's not your fault, if you're just a victim, then there's really no way to change. Like there's no impetus for change. But if it if a lot of it is your fault, here's the great news. It is fixable through the stuff that you do. Right. And so when it comes to nutrition, exercise, and I started going to therapy in 2016 when I was going through my first divorce, and I think I probably used therapy completely incorrectly until very recently, honestly, which was I am just going and venting about stuff. I'm mad about right now. I did get better at certain things. I got better at like staying on topic in conversations and, you know, not pulling in old stuff, you know, those sorts of things. But I really going I've kind of gotten back into it with my first therapist, and one of the things I've said to her is like, Hey, if I need to vent, I'll like, let me go five, 10 minutes, and then like, cut me off, stop me right? Because I want to, like, work on the tools. And I think one of the things that really became aware, I became very aware of is, you know, you always hear kind of the terms, like you got to go work on yourself. And I if you're single, I think that's, you know, totally true as well. But it's it's really easy to like, be like, yeah. So don't gaslight and don't do this and listen with empathy and all that kind of stuff until you're triggered, until you're in a relationship that like matters to you and you're like, Open it up those wounds. And then it's like you're just like trying to trying to stay calm and do those things. Like the only way you're going to be able to use this stuff is, at least in my experience, is to like, okay, try. And I'm like, my big goal for this year is to slow myself down. I'm like, slow down, slow down, slow down, because I'm a person that goes a billion miles an hour and and really one listen to, even if it's not just a partner, but like if I'm triggered in a business conversation because that stuff happens to slow down and listen to what they're saying. And then at least try to see their point of view. And just because I see it doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Right. It looks like that's the work doing those tools because there's so many people that will just that go to therapy. And I fell into this go into therapy. I'm like, Well, I'm going to therapy. I'm following these therapy accounts. Yeah, but what's the point if you're not like actually implementing the tools, you have to actually do the work?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, absolutely. And I did a real on that a few months ago, which basically was like, if you want to know if you want to know the most effective tool for making change in your relationships, it's not going to therapy. It's not reading all the self-help stuff. It's not following all these accounts. It's actually implementing change. It's actually doing the thing, whatever the thing is. And that is the reality, is that like knowledge in and of itself is not power at all. It's just knowledge. It's the application of that knowledge that becomes our power. But as you're saying, it's really easy to get caught up in. Look at all these things that I'm doing, meaning the content you're absorbing or going inventing in therapy. But then when it really comes time for you to implement the change, how are you doing it? How are you practicing it? And like, are you willing to actually do the hard thing? And well, it sounds basic and it sounds so simple. It's not easy. And I think that's where a lot of people just kind of give up on it.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, understanding more now about like my own like my own personal triggers, you know, it's funny because in my first real relationship, I would say that I felt like I was kind of securely attached based on what I had read. And then, you know, I think one of the things that I had read about was if you are if you're a anxious person, but then when you get with somebody who's more anxious than you, you can actually act like an avoidant, you know, or vice versa. And so then I had that experience. So I ended up kind of like being a little bit avoidant because somebody was pushing me so much. And then my next relationship, that person was very avoidant. And so I became very anxious, you know, And I think like learning and understanding to not internalize everything because I think one of the one of the biggest things I didn't realize was I made so many things about me that were not even about me that had nothing to do with me. It wasn't my job to fix it, you know? And these were mistakes I made in my previous relationships. And just coming to the understanding that like, Hey, I have to trust that my partner is going to bring something to me if they're if they actually want something. And if they don't, if they want something and they don't bring it to me, then that's probably not somebody that it's going to work out with long term If I've got to do guessing games. Yeah, that's like, you know, the person I'm with now. Like it's been so great because, you know, it's relatively new, but, you know, I just I know just based on various things I'd seen, you know, she's a very, like genuinely good human being and when she wants something, she asks for it directly. I don't have to beat around the bush. And also, that sounds great in theory, but then when you're like getting directly asked for something that's really difficult for you, like that can be triggering too. So it turns out like, you know, people can then say, we don't want to read your mind, we don't want to read your mind. But then, you know, it turns out I didn't handle it well, the first few times it happened, it was like, What are you saying? I'm not doing this and I'm not doing that. And again, like, just internalizing so much stuff about me that, you know, that's been one of my it's I think being with somebody who I trust that they are a really good person and have done the work themselves as well, has made me like be much more self-aware about some of the stuff that I thought maybe I was doing really good at, that I wasn't. I always thought I was a really empathetic person, and it turns out my definition of empathy, I think was a little bit skewed, which was I would hear somebody would be telling me something about them, and I have a really bad habit of interjecting with a story about me that I relate to, that I've been told I have ADHD, I've been told that, and that can be kind of an ADHD thing, but realizing it doesn't change how it makes the other person feel. Because now I'm taking something that they're telling me and I'm making it about me, right? And that's something I still really struggle with. So, you know, just the empathy portion is okay, if you don't have a story about you. Lane What is you know, can you relate to this person? Can you like listen, you know, a tune and listen empathetically? And so that's been something I've been trying to practice like with with everything, you know, just not just that relationship, but like business friendships, you know, just okay, I in fact, my, my, my cover of my phone actually is a screenshot of something that says do not listen with the intent to reply, listen to understand, because I need that constant reminder, because that is a really bad habit of mine. But I like all that stuff. It's like I never get a chance to use that unless I'm placed in that position to do it, you know? Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
But I like what you're saying about that. Even so, somebody who's listening who maybe is single, that they can apply this to other relationships and.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
You're saying that that's where a lot of your practice, whether with colleagues or friends, even your children, that there can be application of this. And I know for me with my son is probably one of the places that I practice it the most be it being a single person I recognize. And I read something that their day that said, Are you really making progress or are you just like keeping yourself kind of protected so that you don't have to get triggered to, you know, see if that's the case? And sometimes I check in on that with myself that I know I'm I'm guarded and it's hard for me to want to connect with somebody. But yeah, I mean, there are our kids, our friends, our family, our colleagues. There's a lot of places we can practice this.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
But yeah, I mean, the, you know, the my current relationship, one of the things she said that I thought was so attuned was I said something to the effect of we had a little bit of conflict and I was like, well, I think as we go on, we have more conflict. And I know that the relationship is not going to end just because of conflict. I'll feel more confident and I'll, you know, and she's like, Yeah, but as the relationship goes on, you have more invested and it can be even more triggering, you know, because you are so afraid. That actually like makes a lot of sense. And I think there's nothing more triggering than kids like, I like that is the information I wish I would have had being a dad, because it's like it's kind of the whole like people that have kids, they don't really want to hear advice from people that don't have kids because it's like it's like learning about battle in a classroom versus actually being in battle. I'm not saying that kids are like war, but I mean, yeah, yeah. Some days The point is like, you know, it is really so easy when you look at kids and say, Well, when I'm a parent, I would do this and I would do that, That's like, Yeah, wait until you're triggered 24 seven because that is like every insecurity you have about yourself is magnified like tenfold and reflected back to you. And like you realize most times when you're getting upset with your kid, it's not because you're that upset with them. You're upset because you feel inadequate as a parent, because you can't get them to do what you feel like they should do, right? And yeah, that's been that's kind of been a game changer for me to, like, be like, all right, before I really get angry with my daughter or my son, am I making this about me or am I actually, like, really this upset with them over something?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And that the tool that I suggest people use and that I use frequently. So whether with your kids romantic relationship are the three W's and that's the first W of when you're recognizing those physiological cues that happen when whether tightness in your stomach or in your chest or a lump in your throat. But that cue that's indicating, okay, I'm feeling pretty fucking triggered right now and I better check in on this before it spirals. And so the first W being what's going on. So knowing what's going on in your body, the second W where's it coming from. And that's exactly what you're saying. What is the story I'm telling myself about this? And for somebody who, like, really wants to show up as a good parent and maybe is working really hard to do it differently than their parents did, which I know that's what comes up for me a lot, is that sometimes I swing to the other end of the spectrum because I really don't want to do it even close to how they did. And then the third W's, what do I need? And so when it comes to our kids or our partner, it's like I need to calm down before I say something I'm going to regret. I need to regulate. I need to really get myself in check. Because no matter who or interacting with, if we come in with with a tone, with facial expressions, with the demeanor that creates a threat state for them, the outcome is never going to be what we want it to be, even if they decide to comply, so to speak, because maybe they have fear around those things. That's not getting you any closer to connection or emotional intimacy or a healthy relationship. It's just creating the behavior you want in the moment or with our kids. Sometimes not, but like it's still not affected.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
No, exactly. And that's I have done it wrong so many times, you know, in terms of, you know, just like like one of my things is I do. I know I require too much validation. Like, that's a that's a thing for me. And I like I'll want a lot of reassurance. And sometimes if somebody is telling me something I did and how it made them feel, like what reassurance in that moment. And that's like not appropriate, you know? And then even like one day I remember like my daughter said something where I'm like, I forget what she said, but I was like, honey, it's it's not your job to make dad feel better. Like, that's Dad's job, you know, like, don't feel like you have to make me feel better. Like, if you want to give me a hug, that's fine. But don't feel like you have to do it to make me feel better, okay? Because I'm like, my God, what am I? What am I doing? I don't want to, you know, create somebody who has no boundaries. And the people pleaser, you know, because that's that's honestly what got me in trouble with so many things was just whether it was personal relationships or business. Well, I would let people you know, what I've said is, like in my career, I have let I've had a lot of like really tough stuff happen to me where, like, I've been kicked out of companies that I helped start that were worth a lot of money. And we're doing really well. And you know, what I've always said is like, Yeah, there were some people who were shitty people that did some shitty things, or I would say shitty people, they did some shitty things. I'm sure in their minds it was justified. You know, nobody. But like they say, behavior is a language because nobody thinks they're doing the wrong thing with the wrong intentions.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right?

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
But, you know, I was the one who put me in the position, who put them in the positions where they could do that, like by me not having better boundaries, by trying to be cool, like trying to be, you know, because my background was because a lot of people when they when they talk about how somebody gets to where they need a lot of validation or there are people pleaser, like I read the I read the stuff and it's usually talking about parents who, you know, would do certain things like mindful and a little bit of that. But for the most part, my parents were actually like pretty great. I mean, you know, I can go and nitpicked stuff, but they always gave me love freely. You know, they never they never, like, made me perform or anything like that. But I was bullied really horribly by my peers growing up. And so I think a lot of my stuff actually came from that. Sure. And I actually like, you know, I it's funny because it's like two different people almost when I'm online, if I'm calling out somebody, I don't care about that person's opinion. Me like whatever. But people who are around me on a day to day like I care so much about that and it's really actually done in me in many ways. It's done me and the people I care about a disservice by not having good boundaries. And so that's another thing I've been been working out of like, okay, when I, when I need to where I need to do it, I need to do it, you know, And that's probably been the one thing I've struggled with the most because I've been so afraid of people holding a negative opinion of me and people I care about.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and the fear of rejection. And when you have a foundation of rejection, which is one of all humans biggest fears, and you actually have this evidence log of that happening over and over, of course you're going to create what I call our survival behaviors of like, how are you going to start showing up to survive that environment? And when the people pleasing and the codependency and all of that, you see that, okay, well, maybe it maybe they're not being as mean to me when I find these ways to please them or do what they want, then of course that's what we carry with us into our adult relationships. I was just talking to one of my clients. He is a very successful entrepreneur a couple of weeks ago about this because he said the same thing he said in certain settings, like, I don't care what people think of me and like, I'm going to do what I need to do. I'm going to say what I need to say. And he and he started to talk about the situations where he does care. And I helped him to see like, you mean where there's a risk of not being accepted by the people who mean something to you, right? Yes. And that is it was such an moment for him to see that. Yes. When there is a risk of pain, emotional pain, that's where those survival behaviors come up. Yeah.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah. And, you know, I just wish I could go back and say, like, listen, anybody who rejects you for some of this stuff was somebody you didn't want anyway, you know? I mean, I can remember, you know, my therapist telling me before I got married a while back, get a prenup. Like get a prenup. It's not unfair. You have you know, you have stuff that you've created. Like this is like you need to protect yourself and your kids. And I didn't. And the reason I didn't was because I was I was scared that, you know, we wouldn't be together anymore. And, you know, like and just because it's a prenup doesn't mean it has to be unfair or anything like that. But it would have you know, it would have saved quite frankly, it would have saved both of us, you know, a lot of time and and hassle and, you know, contracts are you know, it's kind of like a business contract. I mean, contracts are only worth what you're willing to pay to enforce them. I mean, attorneys fight over this stuff every day, but at least if you have some kind of outline, it makes things easier. And I think that's the hard part about separating those emotions versus I mean, I was talking about this with a friend. I'm like, you know, don't I said, don't you wish you could go back and just, you know, tell yourself, do not have kids with anybody you wouldn't go into business with. Like, don't do it, Don't do it, Don't do it, you know, because it's like if you're if you have somebody who's like in business, it's very hard to do business with somebody who's emotionally immature. Right? Because there's not going to be accountability. There's not going to be self-reflection. And so a lot of it's just going to fall on you. But I mean, with kids, it's even harder because you're tied for so long. And I'm thankful that, like, you know, me and my my kids mom, we have a better relationship now than we used to. But, you know, it's it's if you're if I've seen friends who have had, you know, people who are really emotionally immature to deal with. And I mean, it's like you feel like you're taking crazy pills when you read some of the conversations, you know, you're just like, how could somebody spin this so far out? It's funny, actually, the first time I saw the term gaslight and then the definition, I'm like, Wait, they've got a word for this. Like, there's actually a word for this. my God, I felt so much better. I'm like, because I'm like, you know, you're just unlike. I would get to the point where I'd be like, Am I? Am I? So am I insane? You know? Yeah. Because you it would be like you'd have this recollection of what happened. And then somebody was like, No, it didn't. That's not what happened. This is what this is what happened. And yeah, I think it actually it, I think gaslighting can actually if you don't have strong boundaries and you are aware people who are self-reflective, I think it can work pretty well on just because you will kind of go, is it me? You know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Because if you keep having the same things happen, I mean, like if I keep having the same things happen, I know. I go, okay, what am I doing to contribute to this? You know?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, that's where the codependent narcissistic dance comes in. That's that's why those the Human Magnet Syndrome is a book that references a lot of that, that these individuals, we don't have to call them narcissists, but that have those tendencies of the gaslighting and all of those things. The crazy making behaviors is truly what what we call them. They are going to be drawn to the individuals with the more codependent behaviors who just want to people please, and they just want to make them happy. And they're easy to manipulate because you can play on their emotions and you can play on their desire and craving for acceptance. And that's exactly where that dance comes in. And so when even when we're talking about like going back to the basics and being aware of that, I think one of the most basics in like most formative or crucial basics is the self-awareness piece. So where did you develop these survival behaviors from and how were they showing up present day and how were they? What was once adaptive is now maladaptive and is causing you pain and and allowing others to take advantage of you. So I think the self awareness of where it came from. Then also, what is my role in this today, which is kind of what you referenced even at the beginning of the conversation, like what is my role in this?

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I mean, I read the book Codependent No More, and I remember I got to like one page and I'm like, fuck, You know what I mean? I'm not codependent. I'm not codependent. And I got one page and I'm like, you know, But a lot of it was because I didn't have a strong sense of self, you know, I didn't have a really strong like it's and it's so funny. And I've had friends say this to me like you are when it comes to science and nutrition. You are like, this smartest person and you get the nuance like you you understand it. So like, how are you? So frankly, my best friend is like, Well, how are you so dumb when it comes to this? And I'm like, I don't know, man. It's hard to for whatever reason, I had a hard time translating it, you know? And I think just as I, I didn't realize at the time, but reading codependent no more like just the concept, but that just because my partner's having a bad day didn't mean I needed to have a bad day. That was a completely and utterly foreign concept to me. My mood went how my partner's mood went right. Like if they were having a good day, I was having a good day. And you also like when you get out of that sort of thing and you realize like how much and listen, like this isn't to blame my ex partner because like, you know, I was volunteering for this, right? Like, and it was a dance, right? Like it's a relational dance because they don't they probably don't even realize they're doing it either. Right? Because I'm allowing it. I'm not setting boundaries. But like when I kind of got out of that, I never realized, like, how much mental energy that was taking out of my life. And like, just the I remember I remember like, like wake up in the morning and start thinking about, okay, what has to happen today to have a good day? Okay, let's do this, let's do this, this, this. And at times I would feel like, man, if I make one slip up, you know, that's good. But again, that's that's like, you know, my the person I'm dating now says, yeah, there's no there's no there's no victims. There's volunteers. You know, like there are victims.

 

Dr. Liz:
But sure, sure.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
You know, if you keep going back and you're unhappy, you are volunteering for this, you know, like there is a dance. And I think my one of my biggest problem was and in therapy, this was a red flag for me. About me was my r r my old couples therapist had said, Man, you got to stop focusing on her, like you got to focus on you. Like, you have to change. You have to work on changing you because you can't change her. And I remember thinking, Well, I don't want to change if she's not going to be willing to change. And it's like, that's not fair to the other person either, because the best chance you have, at least in my opinion, because you're the expert. So you told me. But I feel like the best chance you have to get somebody else to change is for you to change. And then to see that. And then, you know, maybe they start putting down. There was a little bit like it's like superpowers de-escalating, you know what I mean?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? Disarming them. Yes. Yeah.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think it's serves to purposes. So circle of control is the term I use for that when I have a client that is just talking about what their partner is doing, just But how do I get them to do this? But how do I get them to stop doing that? And my response is always, you don't you have zero control over what they're doing, but what is within your circle of control? How are you showing up? How are you responding? What are your boundaries look like? How are you enabling some of these behaviors? And then your change is so valuable for two reasons because if you start doing your own healing and you start implementing these healthier behaviors, the first outcome of that either is, as you're saying, it does invite change. So it invites your partner to say while they're really trying and I want to be part of that, I want to see where this can go. I'm they feel valued. They feel prioritized when they see you're putting in those efforts. But the other side of that is that there's plenty of people who don't say that. They're like, cool. They're they're getting healthier. I haven't had to do a damn thing like, great. And they just keep rolling with it. Well, for the person who's focusing on their circle of control, that is actually also equally amazing because now you get to say, okay, my circle of control is I'm no longer going to be in this relationship.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Like, yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
That gives you the awareness to remove yourself. And so, yes, I'm always encouraging clients like just stop giving a shit just for a second about what everyone around you is doing. Focus on what you can do, how you can show up better, and then allow that to be kind of the compass you use to navigate moving forward.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I remember what my couple service said, she said instead of like, whatever, she's giving you feedback or criticism, why don't you get curious, right? Like, ask, what would that look like for you? How could I do that better? You know? And she's like, and if you're doing that, it doesn't mean that she's right. It doesn't mean any of that stuff. But you'll learn more. You'll learn like what is behind all this stuff that's ticking, right? Yeah. And also you get to set your own boundaries and then you get to see how somebody reacts. Right? And I think that has that has been like the most telling thing for me. And I mean, this is like literally an epiphany I had like last week, which is, man, you know, really it's kind of like, listen to your partner. Try to understand how to best to love them what they need, not how you like to do it, but what they need. Yeah. And have your boundaries. And if somebody breaks up with you over that or over your boundaries, then it was never going to work in the first place. Totally. And you know, again, that's like, you know, it's it's the conflict. It's it seems like. What do they say? It's never about the dishes, right? It's the it's the way I think John Gottman said like it's not about it's never the fighting. It's how people fight. Right. And so it's like really like, do you get do you have someone who's not going to like, take really personal shots at you? Who's going to focus on like the core and like, listen, it doesn't mean that like, you know, we have when people are arguing, it looks like a conversation like this, like, yeah, people are going to get spun up. This can be body language, all that kind of stuff. But I think in a healthy relationship, it's when people take a time out and they come and revisit it. Does it go better the second time around? Because in at least in my experience, in unhealthy relationships, whenever it gets revisited, it's worse. But my experience in a healthy relationship has been when we come back to it and we're not triggered, it's better, you know. Right. And and again, that's like both That was I was starting to realize I think again from like these continuous things that I had pop up, it's like, all right, so this person who I trust is a good person who I know does the work, who has genuinely apologized when they've been wrong. I think that's a big one, by the way. Well, somebody genuinely apologized when they're wrong and try to do it better. Right. And I always joke, I'm like, I'm such a pushover. Like somebody even have to change their behavior. Just say you're sorry. Like, I'm so I'm such a low bar, you know? But if this person is giving me that feedback that I've also gotten from pretty much anyone else I've been with, then that has to be a meeting, you know? Yeah. And yeah, it's been it's been very, very enlightening. And to undo like some of the bad wiring, I mean, like you said, it's just about doing the work and one of the, I think one of the biggest things I've struggled with is listening, just listening and then asking questions and not not making it about me. You know, I think that's that's been the thing I struggle with the most.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Because those narratives that we create, as you were saying earlier, it's it's the stories we create about a situation that's based in our core beliefs. It's based in things prior to that partner. But then when something happens, immediately our brain goes to create the story. They don't really care about me. I'm not a priority. I don't really matter. Everything I do, they criticize, which is not literally.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
All the stories I tell myself that you're putting out right now. That's literally it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. And that's really hard when that is immediately what pops in our head. So now that is the lens through which we're seeing this. Well, that is exactly where our survival behaviors pop up that are not helpful. And also, as you mentioned earlier, our partner has their own survival behaviors. So they're not necessarily trying to cause harm intentionally, but they're also trying to protect themselves in a way that just stirs up stirs us up more, which is very common. Right? We attract people who are triggers, rub up against each other and the willingness and ability to stop and reflect in like, what is my role? What is the story I'm telling myself, Where is this coming from? And now how can I explore? How can I ask some questions instead of just assuming which is very common, can change the trajectory of it completely. But I do think the accountability piece is so hard for so many people. And I'm curious, even in the work that you do, you know, in the past when you've done maybe one on one coaching or things like that, how do you help people to increase accountability and increase their willingness to look at their role without like kind of scaring them off in the process?

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
That's a great question. So, you know, I think right now, like in the nutritional landscape, fitness landscape, you know, relating it to therapy, you know, stuff is kind of like, well, I'll just do ice baths or just, do you know, this quick hack or whatever. And it's like, that's not going to you have to change your life if you want to change your life, like you just have to do it differently. I remembered I read a a systematic review of people who successfully lost weight and kept it off. And, you know, there's a lot of stuff in there. So these just for reference. Yeah, people who lose weight and keep it off long term. It's a very low percentage. The weight recidivism amongst people who diet, it's like depending on the statistic metrics you use a past like keeping it off after like three years, it's like less than 10% of people do it. It's really low. In fact, so much so that the American Dietetic Association basically said nutrition diet is not a does not produce nothing. It doesn't produce weight loss, but it's not a suitable weight loss modality because the not because you can't lose weight on a diet. Of course you can, but because the long term evidence says people don't keep it off. So when I was going through so this was a systematic review of essentially the 10% or less rate, the people who actually do it. And I think that that's a really telling thing to get into. And there was stuff on there that you would expect, right? Like cognitive restraint. So they had to follow some form of cognitive restraint, whether it's, hey, I'm eating low carb or, hey, I'm tracking my calories or I'm eating low fat, you know, whatever it is, they had to form some some form of dietary cognitive restraint. And then there was a self-monitoring aspect. Like they're weighing themselves pretty consistently. They're also like maybe like monitoring their food intake in some way, Whether it's journaling or tracking calories, they're more likely to exercise, as you know. So there's all this stuff you'd expect. But there was one thing that really stood out to me that kind of blew my mind, and that was most of them identified that they had to develop a a basically a different identity. And I do know Ethan simply as I do not. So Ethan is an a Hollywood actor who lost over £300. He was in remember the Titans? He was in American history Acts. He was in My Name Is Earl the Boy Meets World. So a lot of people who are listening will probably get a visual of Ethan in their head. And now he's like, he used to be over £550 and now he's like £220 and jacked. And he he will when he posts pictures of his workouts, he'll always include a line and says, I killed my clone today. And as soon as I saw this, this study, I texted him, I'm like, Dude, is this what you meant? Is this what you mean by this? A new identity? He's like, Absolutely. He's like, because that person who was £550 still lives in every single day. And I have to consciously make an effort that I am going to be different than that. And I think that is really reframe the way I looked at weight loss and quite frankly, I'll dovetail it back into therapy, which is if you're overweight or obese or you're a drug addict or you're an alcoholic, your life, you cannot create a new life while dragging your old habits and behaviors behind you. And I feel like so many people try to do that. They want to have a new life, but they don't want to change their habits. They don't want to change their behaviors because that's where they're comfortable, that's where their life is comfortable. And a lot of that stuff's on autopilot. You know, I used to be one of these people. I'm like, all obese people are just lazy and they're not, you know, they're consciously I don't I don't think that anymore. I mean, because you have tons of obese people who are very successful and very hard working in certain aspects of their lives. So that cannot be true. But a lot of these are are either survival responses to different things, but like let's take an alcoholic, for example. You have to change your friend circle. Probably you might have to change where you work. You've got to change the places you hang out because it used to be okay after maybe at work you were drinking, but then after you got off work, you went drinking with your buddies at a bar down the street. That was where everybody knew you. You can't go there now because that's such a huge trigger for you. You got to you got to completely redo your life. And even in this systematic review, they also said that people who lost weight and kept it off, that they they they identified that they lost quite a few friends in the process. And I think a lot of people will see that. And their immediate thought is, well, now they're in shape. So now they want to go hang out with fit people. I don't think it's that conscious. I think it's you are changing your habits and behaviors and what happens a lot of times when you do that, the people who see you doing that without them even realizing it, they want to pull you back in because they don't like how you bettering yourself or you changing yourself makes them feel about themselves.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
And they will try to pull you back. And so they'll say, why can't you just you know, it's just one drink or it's just it's just a piece of cake, you know, Why can't you just let yourself have fun or whatever it is? And again, that's we're having boundaries and whatnot. But when it comes to therapy, I think again, speaking from my own personal experience of me doing this, I'm like, how do I just, you know, I just want somebody who validates me all the time. Like, why can't I get that? Like, you know, it's it's like I was once somebody who worships me all the time, right? Like, it's like, okay, Lane, good luck, you know, because you're basically going to be dating soup, you know, dating soup, somebody who doesn't have an identity. And the reality is, like, any relationship that's worth a damn is going to be somebody who challenges you, you know, to to be a better person. And that's what I've gotten a lot recently, is like somebody really challenged me to be a better person who sees that version of me and also sees when I go into bad habits and doesn't doesn't tolerate it. And I like I'm actually so grateful for that, you know? But it is like super hard because I'm like, you know, I think we can all get in our own pity parties of, man, you know, why? Why can't they just, like, lay off me or why can't they just not? And it's like, Yeah, but you probably some of these things you need to listen to, you know, And I think criticism, it's all about how it's delivered, right? For sure. I always say, like my therapist I have now and my best friend Mike, those are two people that when I do something wrong, my therapist very non conventional, she will like curse at me like you fucked that up like I'm and she'll be like, I'm really disappointed in you because I expect more from you. You know? But. And my mom, my best friend who is actually like one of the is actually works as a president. One of my companies at least once a week is like text me is like, bro, take that story down. Come on, man. Look me don't be an idiot, you know? And so but those two people also, I know that if I do something right, they will absolutely gush praise over me and tell me how great I did. And so I think that when you have people like that, and I always responded really well to that in school as well. Professors that were firm but fair.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
You get this trust because, you know, if they're giving you feedback, you should listen because you know it's genuine and they know even if you don't agree with it, you know, it's coming from a good place. It's not just trying to tear you down. And, you know, when they give you a compliment, it's not just blowing smoke up your ass, you know? And I would say to people like, I've had both those kind of people in my life, people who were just only criticism. And I've had people who are only compliments. Both are equally dangerous and will reflect your life equally as bad.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And equally have an agenda. Just yeah, whatever that agenda is. But yes, when and I love that you know Brené Brown talks about clear is kind and having just saying what you mean and meaning what you say creates that trust. I mean, going back to the study that you referenced, I mean, I just think that that is brilliant and so applicable to all of this in terms of really being aware of that identity and being willing to mourn the loss of it. In the book that I just released, that's one of the sections of it as I talk about part of Reprograming is mourning the loss of who we were and mourning the loss of those relationships that weren't serving us. But we were so addicted to and the behaviors that we engaged in that, you know, our uncomfortable comfort zone. And so I think that is just it's really profound and really a lot of people need to hear that message that nothing changes if nothing changes and not to overwhelm anyone. But even for people listening right now, like identify one thing that needs to change, identify one skill to work on, identify one piece of the cycle that just keeps repeating, keeps being on loop, and just work to change that and let that become a new habit and then implement the next. But you don't have to completely flip everything overnight. But you do have to pick one thing and you do actually actually have to do it. Like that's the only way we change.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I mean, like, I think a great example of that is like I've been saying maybe not listening to understand, just listening to respond, that is like and you know, that is I'm still in the phase where that's taking a lot of mental energy, you know, like that takes a lot of mental energy. And I even catch myself, you know, I'm like, I'll start doing something I like. I'm sorry. I was going to make it about me. I'm sorry. You know, And, you know, I think most people most most people, I will say if they see the effort, I think there's going to be a lot of grace, you know what I mean? Especially when you can call yourself out. You know, I think that's so important. Like, I remember the person I've been seeing, I forget we were having conflict over, but like just came back a couple of hours later via text and was like, he has actually really hard on you earlier. I'm sorry about that. Like, my points were valid, but I was I was really hard on you and I'm like, man, that's like, I'm not even upset anymore, you know, like, because, like, that had to be so hard for somebody to do that, you know? And I think that I use, like, the escalation of super powers. It's like you can go to DEFCON one, you know what I mean? We're like.

 

Dr. Liz:
I don't.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
We're not ready to engage in nuclear war, you know? And it's really it has to be. I remember reading a Gottman book and then saying, turn towards your partner. Turn towards your partner. And it's like, are you going to protect your ego or are you going to go this is not worth it, you know, and and be the first person to de-escalate, you know? Yeah. And not keeping score like that's, that's, that's something I really struggle with, you know like I try to do all these things and you still got this criticism will be and it's like they're allowed to have that they're allowed to have it you know like they're allowed their feelings. It doesn't matter that you did all these things. They're feeling a certain kind of way and you got to address it. And I've actually been reading, what was it, The Men's Guide to Women by Gottman, which I'm like, man, man, I wish I could go back to 16 year old Lane and be like, Here, you don't get to do anything. You don't get to speak, you don't get to talk to anybody because actually it's actually I would say it's actually kind of a leadership book, to be honest and talking about like like I can look back and now see like, okay, like, all right, maybe I wasn't with the best people or the best people for me, right? But I also see like some stuff I did that would get some pretty masculine energy going, you know, as they like to say. And I'm like, man. Like, that's why that happened. Or that's why they responded like that, you know? And so, yeah, like that book has been I'm only about 70 pages in, but it's been very, very eye opening. And, you know, just, just I'm like, it's the people out there who may be like, if you're not going to therapy or if you are going, but you're not seeing change. Like what I would see is like, I know it seems very scary and I know it felt very scary for me to do some of this stuff because it's like, but I'm giving up all my power is what it felt like. Yeah, but it's not power when it keeps screwing you over, you know, it's really not power at the end of the day. Like, do you want to be right or do you want to have a really like a good relationship where you feel fulfilled because you were bubbly? Like, even if you're right, you're going to be wrong.

 

Dr. Liz:
You know?

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
And I think, like, if I could just go back and tell myself that stuff, you know, I'll also like having a strong sense of self and it's okay to put up boundaries. It's okay to not have to manage people's emotions, like what a game changer would be. But hey, you know, I'll be 42 next week, so better, better late than never.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Well, and you know, I'm still doing all the same work as everyone else. And so that's you can have all of the knowledge, you can have all of the application, but the reminder that it is a constant work in progress and it's putting in the work that matters. And as you were saying earlier, we are never going to show up perfectly. We're going to get triggered. Those things are going to happen. But learning the skills and practicing the skills makes biggest difference. So I appreciate your time today, Lane. I appreciate your insights. Where can people find you a website socials? Where can you be found?

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Yeah, I'm at bi lane on pretty much everything. My website is by aleikum, and if you are somebody who is sick of all the B.S. and feeling confused and the nutritional and exercise landscape and you like somebody who puts out no BS content might make you laugh from time to time. I'm a guy.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Well, definitely make people laugh, especially if you appreciate good sarcasm and no bullshit approach to life. That is definitely. And that cracked me up when you said about Mike telling you to take stories down. I spent I don't even know how many laughing faces I send you a week of like just cracking up that I'm like, He just said that and he does not even care. I love that about you. So appreciate. I appreciate what you're putting out. And a big part of that is I just I really appreciate how real you are. And I think that that is very helpful for people who are following. So thank you for all of that.

 

Dr. Layne Norton:
Thank you. I'm I'm trying to be real and trying to carry that into more aspects of my life.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. So important. Thanks again, Dr. Layne, for helping us to identify the first steps towards change. And thank you for hanging out on relatable relationships. Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered.