Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered, Getting back with an ex. We've all been there, whether we want to admit it or not. But is it actually a good idea? Today, I'm joined by Courtney Gatlin, a certified relationship coach, and we're trying to answer that question for you. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Hey there, Coach Court. How are you?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Pretty good about yourself.

 

Dr. Liz:
Good. I'm so glad we were able to connect in this way. We've been connected for quite some time on the Gram and it's nice to be able to meet and chat about all things relationships for sure.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah, I'm excited about it.

 

Dr. Liz:
So we're going to talk about getting back with an ex or I guess should you get back with an ex, What should you consider? A lot of your content is around relationships, of course, but breaking up, going no contact, really like how to handle those type of situations. So when you're helping a client navigate whether they should get back with an ex or not, where do you start with that? And also, would you agree that it's pretty common that it's easier?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
It's really common, especially when they feel like this. There's a lot left unsaid and a lot of things left undone, like the relationship didn't run its course. So of course they're like, I just got to get back in the ball game so I can show them that I'm not the same person that they left in. You know, in the last relationship. So it's pretty common. And should they do it? I guess that all depends on where they're at. My, my, my YouTube channel is actually where I started this all, which I talk a lot about attachment styles. And if you're someone who who's more anxious, then you probably shouldn't be getting back into this relationship right away. And this is something that you need to take time to heal yourself before you try to show up for that person again. Because usually if you don't, you just end up making the same mistakes again. So I think it should be always like this little grace period in between getting back with that person. If you if you feel like you can do it again or even if you're just like you're triggered into this, I just need to I need them back instead of I want them back. And that's I think if you can make that shift from needing them back to actually just all right, I'm healed, I can show up differently. That's the big that's the big caveat on whether or not you should go back with them. I just want to say from the jail, I'm sorry now of. Yeah, right away. I try to get it get a workout in when I come over.

 

Dr. Liz:
So. Yeah. So would you say that's normal? Do you see it's the anxiously attached partner who is pursuing kind of that reunion or do you see it equally between?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
For sure, It's usually the anxiety attacks person, the avoiding, the more they go more into this numbing or they're just kind of like, All right, we've got that over with. I just need some time to just do me for a little while. And then the relationship actually, or it's not on their mind right away, but the anxious person, all they can think about is getting back with that person.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. And I don't know if in my experience, I don't know if it's fair to say that it's not on the avoidance mind. Like, from what I have seen with my clients, what I've seen with my personal relationships of being drawn to the avoidant over and over again, it's not necessarily not on their mind, but they don't know what to do with it. Like they don't. I mean, which is typical for an avoidant, is that when they they want to avoid conflict, they want to avoid discomfort. They also want to avoid the risk of rejection. And so that is kind of more what I've seen, that they are less likely to be the one to pursue or to reach out because they don't know the outcome and they're avoiding the fear of that. And the anxious is kind of like, I don't really give a fuck what the outcome is like. I'm going to spend my we'll see. And again.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
It's it's, it's them trying to get their needs met right. Which is the avoidance their need of autonomy. Isolation is what they go for immediately after the breakup from what I've seen.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
So yeah, it is on their mind. But for the most part, from what I've been told, from people that I work with, it's more like I'm numbing out. I'm just going to I'm not going to feel this for a little while. I'm just going to hang out with my friends and my family and do what I need to do as far as like getting myself back, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I think that's fair to say for sure.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah. But the just person it is, that's all they think about, right? So should they get back together? Easier to see the dynamic happening. This, these stories play out over and over again in the exact same way which is you have this brief honeymoon period right after you get back together. And then the old habits started to pop back up and come out again. So for those relationships, I tell them, you know, you're you're probably going to be signing up for more of this if you haven't done anything to work on yourself.

 

Dr. Liz:
So yeah, that and that's such an important point of all of this is that often when so with especially with the interest avoidant dance that we're going to look at it in terms of attachment styles is that's what generally leads to the rupture is that the needs are being met, that the avoidant is feeling suffocated, the anxious is feeling like they're not a priority, they're not getting their needs met and really neither of them feeling like they're getting their needs met. And so that then something so simple can turn into this big blow up that doesn't get worked through. And that is so common with the toxic cycle as you're describing with the honeymoon phase. So we're in this state of infatuation. Something happens and creates conflict, stirs up both of our our attachment wounds and our triggers, you know, which leads either to a formal breakup or just like not talking for multiple days. Right. But then as you're saying, like, okay, but then how do we decide if we want to start the cycle over? Well, if the cycle is just going to keep going in the same way, we probably don't want to start that cycle over.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah. And usually when they do get back together, you know, that initial panic, it goes away. You know, I really feel like I worked in recovery for a really long time. And, you know, I seen that a lot with addiction where, you know, they don't have this object or they don't have the substance and they're just panic. And, you know, they're more sweat and sweat and more than me sweating bullets. But then when they get back together, all of that just dissipates and they feel this sense of comfort and calm again and they forget to keep that thorn in their side, to remember what that feeling felt like when they didn't have that, they weren't communicate with them, they weren't on good terms and no one on speaking terms. So then they get a little bit more comfortable with talking about the issues again, talking about what they their needs that aren't being met. And it it's up to the same same old song and dance.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, because I've noticed that it's not really even talking through it in a productive manner. It's not it's not working through it. It's not collaborating. It's not trying to find a solution. When it starts coming up again, it's coming out through criticism and through either nagging on the part of the anxious or through isolating on the part of the avoidant. And so it's coming up in our survival behaviors versus actually saying, hey, can we talk through this? Can we find a way to collaborate and make it work? And that is where yeah, it keeps perpetuating the cycle because then it also to say, can we talk through this? Can we collaborate? That feels really scary for both people who are so afraid of abandonment and rejection. The thought of intentionally bringing up this topic can feel really scary.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah, because if you're and one of the questions I get is when do we have this conversation? Do we happy when you're on good terms or do we have this? For instance, people are like, whatever, we're already not talking. I'm just going to say whatever I need to say. Now, since you're and I joke because I used to be agency attached and it's literally like being smothered and suffocated when you can't say what you need to say and express yourself. So like, Well, well, why not? And I guess I'm just below the bridge up. So when do you have those conversations about your needs not being met or the certain issues that you that you see happening in that relationship? So you're probably come up with what's coming up with a nice little hi, like nice little house that you had, a nice dinner date or whatever. Bring it up then. You know, when, when that person's open, they're communicating because you don't want it to bring these things up when the relationship is already inflamed. So that's that's usually when I say bring up those issues and when they when it gets back to when they're getting back with that person, they want to talk about these things right away. And it's like, no, you have to build up a little bit more, a little momentum here. You have to fill up the love tank just a little bit before you can start making demands. And you know which which is what you referred to as nagging, you know. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
So how do you help them to navigate what to say when they bring it out? Because I'm just thinking like so I'm thinking, you know, you just had a nice night together, maybe drinking some wine. You're like, flirting. There's chemistry and then, you know, you're like, By the way, baby, you're not meeting my needs. And I just imagine, like, that whole night. Okay, that's.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah, Yeah. So how would you do it? Okay, for example, let's say you. You were to get back. Would that person that you were with and they, they're the one that took off on you and went silent on you for two weeks or so and then you're back together. Most people wouldn't want to say anything right away. And now just to just kind of go back to just leaving well enough alone. But that doesn't that doesn't that doesn't help grow the relationship. There's no progress being there being made there. So I would say front loaded with some compliments. They also I'm so happy that we're back in communication. So, you know, this is what I really wanted. This is something that you know, is important to me. And I would like to ask you, you know, what what happened during those two weeks where you were gone? Because for me, this is what it felt like. It felt very I felt very isolated. I felt I felt like I couldn't communicate with you, which made me feel like my needs weren't important and try not to, like, you know, be beat a dead horse, but let them know, because that's one thing I did learn about. I've learned over the years about avoidance is they listen very well. You know, it's almost like you have to like coach them a little bit, but you don't want to like, force feed them. You can say this, this, but when people ask me about attachment styles, how would you how would you go about talking about it type of stuff? I would say, Hey, I just read this book. I'm upset. I'm inches attached to like, Have you ever heard about attachment styles? When you're on good terms? Of course, because most people want to say, I'm going to send this to them. What a Cindy's article, The sense of your being like, do not do that because they don't. Criticism's tough for them already. So when you're in a good, good, good space with them, that's when you bring up these growth promoting conversations.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Yeah. That's I'm sure you get it on your posts all the time, like comments that are like, I'm just going to DM this to them, I'm going to screenshot and send this to them and I'm just like, Well, in my business I'm saying that yeah.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
That's one way to kill progress, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. For sure. And, and of course that's how it feels though, when especially when a breakup happens that does feel so frustrating either for one or both people. And a lot of times it's like maybe both people do want to be in it, but it's just like you can't find that middle ground. You can't find a way for both people's needs to be met. And so the conflict just keeps going, which is most certainly not good for anyone, not good for anyone's mental health. But I think that's the hardest part and why a lot of people do get back wanting to get back with their ex and then do get back with their ex because we often hold on to a couple of things. Either the honeymoon stage of what took place when you first got together or were holding on to the potential of what it could have been, what we had dreamed that it was going to be. It's really hard to grieve the loss of all of that.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
It's right. It's not just about. And when people are getting advice from their parents or from their friends, you know, just tell them, just get over it. And it's like, well, it's easy for you to say, but you weren't there when we were making these plans, when we were looking at the condos, when we were doing all these things that was going to be your future, contributing to our future. And it's hard to just grieve that. So it's not just about the person, it's about the lifestyle. It's about the things that that the intangibles, like even just being in communication with them or having a companion. It's because they become your best friend. I mean, the person you choose to be in your life, to be married to, to be in a relationship with is going to be your essentially your best friend. They should be. You know, they shouldn't be your worst enemy. But we all know that that's not always the case. But yeah, so those are the things that that people really struggle with grieving that that friend, that companionship, that workout buddy, that Netflix partner, all of that, you know, it's all bundled up in one and it's a big gap leaves a big gap in your life.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah a huge void and so triggering to our attachment wounds and so then we want to make that feel better. We don't we don't want to sit in the pain of that. We don't want to sit in the grief of it. And so in that moment, it feels like the best option here is just to get back with them like you're describing with with addiction, which is exactly what this is, is it boils down to addiction as we we just don't want to feel that discomfort anymore. And so it's this short sighted approach to making our bodies feel better by just getting back into what we what we know, even though we know the long term. And often I mean, I may or may not have this experience, but does become cyclical and this person means so much to you that it's not just like a one time break up and should we get back together, but it almost becomes the pattern of your relationship. And so it's just kind of, you know, what you come to expect, what you come to know from it. And so it feels normalized after a while.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Right? Yeah, I just wrote I wrote a quote probably yesterday, I think it was about this. I said, you know, toxicity in relationships is like hot sauce. Once you're used to it, it's every other relationship. It's kind of taste bland, you know, And then you have to retrain your palate to enjoy bland Because bland for for some people or for the people that I coach, it means stability, consistency and sometimes, you know, boringness. But it the adventure the adventure is people are the ones that are the high risk, high reward, you know, So.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and that is the hard part. Like if our template of our what I call our relationship programing is not designed, if it if we have not been programed to see that relationships are safe and stable and secure, we equate love with chaos. And I think that that's what leads to a lot of this on, again, off again. And then the other component of it is that sex tends to be really supercharged in these type of dynamics, right?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
If you have to go there, if you had to go there, because I and I think it has a lot to do with the that that that addiction is like yeah no. One you can go on and date other people but if it doesn't have the same buzz as the last one, it's going to make it really hard to get over that person. And even the the bedroom life would be uneventful, unimpressed. So it's is definitely it's all in there, right? It's all balled in together where you don't know. So when people are asking me how do why can I get over this person? Like, well, it takes a while to really understand just how deep that connection was and that attachment, because there's certain things that, you know, feels very familiar to someone that you don't usually a parent figure or something or whatever. Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
But that's gender generally what it is. Yeah, it does. It feels familiar. And when you were talking earlier about, you know, like friends and family being like, just get over it, just move on. It's it's time to and you're like, well, you weren't there for X, Y and Z, which is but also and then God, they weren't there, but they weren't there for the sex either. Right? Right, right. I see. They weren't there for that connection. They weren't there for what that felt like to feel so connected to another human. And it's it's not just an easy thing to be done with when you're helping somebody kind of determine if they should or shouldn't get back together. What are. So you were talked about like, you know, has each person engaged in some of their own personal work, in their own healing? But what are some aspects of the relationship that you are taking into consideration and that you are bringing up to your clients and talking through in helping them to decide if that relationship makes sense to pursue again?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Well, my first and then initially the first half hour of the call, you know, I come out, I take notes throughout the whole call. I'm just trying to read how they talk about the person in the beginning, because if they if they start out with like he never did this, he never did that, he's this and that or she is she's this and that. She had a terrible childhood or whatever they they tend to bring up. It makes me wonder like total leans back on them. Well you haven't really given me any reason as to why this relationship is salvageable. You know, give me something to grasp, you know? And that's like two or three calls where they go and they'll look back and say, you know what? I know the last call. I kind of trauma dumped on you, but this person really is a sweet person, you know? And then I have a write out all of a list of everything, all the characteristics that they like about the person, you know, something and just try to figure out if they see a true future with this person.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? Yeah. And that that's hard to hold space for both of the realities of. Nobody is all good and nobody is all bad. But depending on how we feel about them at the moment, it's very easy to lump them fully into one category. And I think that that's one of the hardest parts about deciding whether to get back together or not, because depending on where you're at. So when you are like pissed at them and you know, it's like right after the break up and it's easy to think of all of the reasons which, like you're saying on, on that first call is generally all the reasons why they don't make any sense. And you know, basically they aren't shit. And so like, move on with it. Yeah, but, but then give it a week or two, you know what I mean. You, you have it sometimes it really like die down and then it's like and it's what attached to the book attach. Helen Levine They talk about the Phantom X that it's really easy then to start thinking like, well, they weren't all bad. And, you know, he made me laugh a lot and he was really cute when he did this and that, and, and then for the really more codependent individuals, the questions start to become, What could I have done differently?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Right?

 

Dr. Liz:
And that gets complicated.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Right? Because they started to flip the lens back on themselves a lot. Yeah. Yeah. We're not let's not even forget that there are those those those are pathologies of narcissism. And there are two that I have to weed out right away. You know, if I, if I let the client get there themselves. Right. Know if they work up to that point, like, you know what, my friends were telling me that it was narcissistic and I'm well, if you see the patterns I mean Right. And it's the questions I ask what Yeah. Why is this relationship salvageable? Can you see a true future with them? What was what was their history or their dating histories? Because their patterns will usually point you in the right direction. Yeah. The things that they've done in the past, they they've shown you that they, they have an expiration date. And so I look like, well, this looks like this is pretty on par with that two year mark that they talked about in the past.

 

Dr. Liz:
Totally.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Can you do you really want to try to repair this and be in for another ride? Because usually, you know, if you make it to a certain age and you've never had a serious relationship, you've never even cared about being, you know, this is just my personal opinion from what I've even cared about marriage or anything like that. It makes me question your intentions on on pursuing relationships to begin with, you know, because if that's the case, then you might as well just truly be avoiding and work on your passion and your purpose in life. But when you do, you bring other people on board which are, you know, could be transient feelings. I don't think it's very fair to do that. You know, and I was actually posting some on my Instagram last night where I'm thinking about making a shift here, like being more of a matchmaker so I can ask all the tough screening questions upfront and kind of help people give them a little bit of a chance out there because there's a lot of heartbreak happening and it doesn't take very long for those real personalities to come out down the line. When I'm seeing someone for six months and like man, because there's a lot of people that I just I'm like, Well, if this is a long term potential, I don't want to say it because, you know, this is their is their experience.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I love is like judgy, but there are like certain data points that don't really change things. You know, it keeps it absolute. It's like almost to a law. So, yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
And if they Yeah. And if they don't do their work, those patterns of cycles definitely continue. And, and if you decide to become a matchmaker, let me know and I'll hit you up and maybe help me out. So that, that'd be great. I appreciate it because I know I agree. And that's that is the, the work that I do with my clients of figuring out those things. I think that that is, that is really important because it's telling on both sides. And so when I have a client who has maybe they're looking to get into a new relationship or they're thinking about getting, you know, kind of pursuing an ex. And we do talk about what are some of these potential red flags. And I'm with red flags. I'm really big on that. There's a handful of universal red flags and the rest are completely subjective. Yeah, every single one of us have red flags, but.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
The rules versus deal breakers, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, sure. And that, you know, the lack of self-awareness, abusive behavior, inability to take accountability, those to me are are pretty much universal. But maybe somebody has relationship history or their work habits or their family.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I don't think enough people talk about the correlation between their work habits. You know, if they've come in, come out of a ton of short lived careers, switching of careers I would be very concerned about if they're if they'll be committed to be in a relationship. You know, I see I've seen a strong pattern of that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think and I think that's where it becomes Ben. Those are more subjective red flags. So it's something that we want to be aware of. It's something we want to watch and see. Is this negatively impacting us? But it doesn't always have to be a deal breaker. Otherwise, I think we just really reduce the pool and we have unrealistic expectations. Right? But what I have them look at are like, what are some of these things that you maybe overlooked or you may be dismissed or were okay with at the beginning that you saw how they grew and compounded over time? Or when you reflect back, you're like, Oh no, I probably should have taken that for what it was. And I think those insights, whether you're deciding whether to get back with somebody or you're starting to date again after a breakup, those insights of the things that we tend to overlook, which is unique for all of us because that ties into our relationship programing, right? That's what we want to become more aware of.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
In this.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
What would you say that your biggest red flag is in your now putting you back? Are you what would you say your biggest red flag is?

 

Dr. Liz:
Oh my God, I'm a complete workaholic like that. That is a very easy answer.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
And oh, no, I didn't mean yours. It's particularly I mean, if you're in the dating, so you wouldn't.

 

Dr. Liz:
Oh, like what? Okay, I'm generally open with mine too. I'm like you, and I'm a workaholic, and I can do that.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Transparency is great. Yeah, I love it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Which is a I would say is a red flag and does create a lot of a lot of barriers. But what the biggest one that I'm looking for, lack of self-awareness, is huge. And then also like lack of mutuality. So if I'm on a dating app and they're not asking questions back, that takes all of about two weeks and we're in matching.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
It shows their level of interest to to.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, yeah. So the the self-awareness and mutuality are things that I check for pretty quickly. What about on your end?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
For me, I would have to say emotional intelligence.

 

Dr. Liz:
But wait, I want to know what your red flag is first.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Oh, my red for.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I mean, only fair.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I still have bouts of insecurity about the jealousy that that pops up every now and then. You know, I know how to maintain it and manage it now, but yeah, I may have at the bar while I get insecure about someone or something. There's just that all abandoned on pot and back on, say, Hey, court, we're still here. We better keep that thorn in your side. I don't get too comfortable.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think that's important to point out, because I'm a big believer that we maintain a lot of like our insecure attachment even when we're healed. Yeah, when we're feeling triggered, we do maintain those reactions, all of us. And it's it's healing more and more and more. So they come up less and less, but then it's also learning how to manage them.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah, right. You just having that that that healthy self talking because I always I always say what is little court thinking Castle court thinking is, you know, where did this come from and how can I try to ground myself, figure out what's my environment like? Am I am I being triggered because of assert, because I'm on my cell phone too long or whatever? So then I try to remove that and get rid of that trigger. But I would say emotional intelligence is it's everything, right? It's like the whole bottle of what if a person's more emotionally intelligent, they'll know to take accountability and what it's like not to take accountability, because that's what and it really grinds my gears when someone just kind of gaslights you and doesn't take any accountability for the things that they've done.

 

Dr. Liz:
MM Yeah.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Flexed It's just Yeah, it just yeah. What you got.

 

Dr. Liz:
So what do you have your clients look? So if like that's probably something you coach on would be looking for that emotional intelligence. What are some tangibles that can be looked for like how how can we know out the gate if somebody is emotionally intelligent?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
It's a good question. I guess I would say how they treat people, how long they've been at their job. I think the parent, the relationships with their parents is very important. If they have their friends circle, you know, the type of people that they decide to to hang around. If you ever if you ever privy to get that information that says a lot about, you know, their character. And for as far as emotional intelligence, you kind of just know, right. It's like almost like a spiritual connection you have with that person because you just see each other on a different plane. Then then you see what other people you know, it's it's I don't know, I don't know how to really put my finger quite on it.

 

Dr. Liz:
But I think that's where it gets hard, because sometimes when we have what feels like a spiritual connection, what we have is a reminder of our past. And what we have is familiar. What we have is, you know, our our wounding parent or apparent wounds in this other person's body that we feel really drawn to and that.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
We have that that that familiarity is and love bomb infused right because usually that can you can feel very safe and comfortable and have your walls let down because that person did a lot of front load and love bomb so.

 

Dr. Liz:
Oh yeah that that seems to be how it goes for sure. Yes. And when processing through this decision, the red flags are really important for that decision of, you know, whether to get back with an ex or not. Because also and what I talk with a lot of my clients about, I post about Instagram is the five needs, wants and boundaries. And when somebody is trying to decide, should I should I try this again? Should I give it another go, we really dissect what their needs being their non-negotiables, their wants being, their preferences, and there are boundaries being their dealbreakers. And it's interesting, it's interesting the amount of shit we are willing to let go when we are attached to somebody great. And when you see the visualization of like, oh man, you know, they maybe have to do a my needs, they maybe have two of my wants and they bust all my boundaries all the time. But because of that attachment, we look past it.

Courtney Gatlin:
And that's your work. At that point, it's too late. It's it's.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure attached.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I'll talk to you next week. At that point, it's like, Oh, I'm going to have to do a lot of damage control here because, you know, what's what's the saying? You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of it in reality.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, we sure should try. Don't we.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Hear.

 

Dr. Liz:
Over and over.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
And that's what I love and that's that's another intangible about it, about someone as emotionally intelligent. When I was taking, I was actually taking the certification course in that and, and they talked about just the difference between even the career choices that someone who was emotionally intelligent would have compared to someone who's on a lower IQ. They tend to be more in leadership roles. They know how to have, they know how to crisis intervene, they know how to de-escalate issues. So and that's and I think that has it shows up in your relationships, too. That's the difference between someone saying, hey, I don't like the way that person was looking at you. And that person say, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, you're just being you're just being so and so again, compared to the person, it's like, okay, tell me more about that. What? Why? Why were you uncomfortable about that interaction? Oh, I've known her forever. Actually. I can introduce you to her if you ask me. That's. That's the key to it all. You know?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, that exploration for sure. So let's say that we've done all this work with a client and they're like, Okay, fine, coach. Or like, I won't get back with them, but how the hell am I supposed to get over this? Like what? How am I moving on? Because it is so, so, so painful. Where do we start with the grieving process when we decide like, we've just got to call it.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I have a ton of books I recommend. I make them do some homework, make them recommend, depends on who the person is. Depends on the relative of the avenue I'm going to send them on. If it's sometimes I send them on a spiritual journey, if I feel like they've lost touch with themselves, if it's attachment related, I'll give them some attachment tools and books to read. If it's more recovered from the breakup. And I send them a podcast about, you know, how to stop thinking about someone, how to avoid your triggers, or how to minimize your triggers because they're going to happen. And when people reach out to me, it's like, I can't stop, I can't get over it. And like, well, you're trying to stop. You just just be for a change. Just be I tell me. I give a permission, right? If they continue, there's one thing that that keeps people attached as they continue to search. They're their exes, social media. And I'll ask them, how many times do you check their social media? They give me a number. Right. Well, let's give ourselves the permission. This is kind of like breaking that addiction type deal to just give yourself permission to check it twice or three times a day. We can scale back from that two weeks out. We can pull back more. But out of sight, out of mind works. So you need to, like, get yourself in a habit of breaking that habit.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Do you as no contact something that you suggest for a lot of your clients or what type of situations are you usually recommending that in?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Well, I kind of renamed it. Oh, I call it you call it self-discovery. I call it the self-discovery rule where you give yourself time to reconnect with you, reconnect with yourself, reconnect with your friends, circle if you have one. You know, some naive. Some people don't have friends or make new friends make do new things. I when I was going through my biggest breakup, I made a habit of going on dates by myself, which is I go out once a week, buy an expensive meal, dress up nice, and just get in a habit of being with myself. And I try to have other people do that, whether it's get back on a workout routine. A lot of people starved themselves during this time. This time I think I might have lost £30 or my biggest one and I have them set their diet. If you need to wake up and eat a drink and ensure or a protein shake, because if you can't eat, then just drink it, you know, drink a fourth of it. At least invitee is fueled by starvation. So I tell make sure you check the diet and get moving.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And that the self-care piece is the exact thing that we do not want to do when our hearts are hurting that bad. And also the exact thing that we need to be doing, because you're absolutely right that the anxiety it gets is exacerbated when we're not eating, we're not sleeping, we're not drinking water, we're not moving our bodies Like that is what the anxiety feeds on. And I tell my clients that all the time, that when you go when you have a snack and a drink of water, when you're feeling really overwhelmed, you're sending a message to your body that you're okay. Because if you are actually being chased by a saber tooth tiger, if you are actually, you know, in a very real threat state, you ain't sitting down to have a snack and a glass of water. So. Right. You're body is like, okay, maybe we're good. So I think, yeah, that is important that self-care.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
But I think I've made a real about that where I talk about it's kind of silly if you think about it like this person decided not to live their life with me anymore, so I'm going to starve myself. I'm going to punish myself, which is usually because you feel like you were the one to blame for the break up. So it's like, Well, this is what I get. I'm just not going to eat. But you know, I've had times where I just, you know, have full blown panic attacks. I'm like, what? This is kind of ridiculous. You know, no one should have this much power in my life. And over my psyche just because they decide to go their separate way.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. And easier said than done. But I. I feel completely.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
I know, I know. But I had to keep hearing it. I had to keep rooted. I had to keep listening to podcast, keep listening to it from from different sources. So make me I'm there now, you know. But we're talking five years ago. No I was it's where I meet a lot of my clients that yeah yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Are there any or do you have a book or two that you recommend specifically around like really grieving the loss, getting through a breakup?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Hmm. I listen to a lot of them. Sometimes I send people this route. I listen to a lot of Ram Dass, which is, you know, recovery for grieving, grieving loss, keeping their mind busy. I recommend to a lot of people Wired for Love by Stanton, which is.

 

Dr. Liz:
A good one.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Yeah, I like it a little bit better than attached. Yeah. I don't know why. I think it just kind of puts it more in layman's terms and people can. So if I keep them occupied with like homework, working out, making sure they're eating things, that's one of the book I like to recommend. And for men, I like to practice men I like to recommend no more Mr. Nice Guy.

 

Dr. Liz:
I recommended that to a client recently. Yeah.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Really? Skippers?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. And Stephanie Sarrazin has a ambiguous grief is a really good one that talks about the exact it talks about breakup, really the loss of somebody in your life, but not to death. And that we often don't talk about that grieving process in the same way and yeah that that's good good content for sure I think that the yes getting the knowledge and taking care of your body and finding ways to distract and soothe are so important now. So like what you talked about with the data collection, I and my clients do that a lot as well. So just tracking. So where are you able to go today? One of my clients made a really cool like calendar year that she's like, put something on each day that she's able, you know, we have like three different things we're tracking and I was able to bring it into session and we look through it and and I'm so proud of her that she's willing to do that, and she's willing to be honest with herself because that can also be one of the hardest things in a breakup or. So deciding whether to get back with the ex or not, being really honest with ourselves and getting our heads out of the sand and getting out of denial about how is this relationship impacting our mental health? How is this relationship bringing us closer to the person that we want to be, to the to the character that we want to have, to how we want to show up in this world and how how is this relationship helping us to feel loves to feel accepted, to help our inner child, to feel safe. And when we get really fucking honest with ourselves, we usually have a pretty clear answer of of how to handle that great.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
We do. Yes, we do. But we just don't want to do it. It's so.

 

Dr. Liz:
Windy.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Right? It's it's the hardest thing.

 

Dr. Liz:
And sometimes it's good that sex is so good. Damn it.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Oh, I took a lot of your New York and texts that person for you. I would because you get because you did it like you felt like you made a breakthrough. And I say, you know what I'll make? I'll send the text, I'll do what I need to do is in court. I didn't do it like.

 

Dr. Liz:
It's how it goes.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Let me help you do it now. Do it for you if I could. But yeah, that's one thing that I really. So I love you, too. I really do. It's. It's opened up a lot of doors and I've helped a lot of people through it. But, you know, it can be taken a little bit. It can be misconstrued, you know, because when I when I first started my channel, it was purely to be the bridge between the avoidant and youngest person, just to be that advocate, be the person that's like the mediator for the two. But unfortunately, they just people start more as like hope, you know, And, and I'm like, I've never once advocated for staying in the situation where you feel like your mental health is slipping and you're completely burying your needs just to be in the same room at the another person. So and I felt like it was important to say, yeah, I really feel like it was something that you just can't tolerate. You should probably walk away.

 

Dr. Liz:
Agreed. Agreed. And your body will let you know that your nervous system is working really hard to let you know when it's not safe and it's just our job to listen. So I appreciate your time today and your insights. Where can people find you? Where are you on YouTube and Instagram and all the places?

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Okay, so YouTube is coach court, Instagram is I am coach caught. Tik Tok is I got him got coach court and my website is on here for info seeds dot com. So look forward to hearing from some of you guys and then hopefully you were my content for sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah no and it is very valuable. It is it's great insights it's very relatable. It's very normalizing. So I appreciate what you do. I appreciate you coming on today and it was great chatting with you. Thank you.

 

Courtney Gatlin:
Thank you. Appreciate it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. And thanks again, Coach Court, for helping us decide we should get back with our ex or not. And thank you all for hanging out on relatable relationships. Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered.