Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered. Betrayal is an incredibly heartbreaking experience in relationships, and unfortunately, we've all experienced it at some point because betrayal comes in so many different forms. And joining me today is Dr. Diane, a licensed psychologist. And we're chatting about how we can heal from all types of betrayal. And this is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Diane, it is so nice to interact with you and to be able to have you on today. I've been cracking up at your reels for years and years now, easily that I've been following you. So I was trying to think back timeline wise of when I started, and it's been a long time. You've been creating very funny content.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Thank you, Liz and I enjoy your content as well. Yes, I think they are similar. Similar in different. Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. Yeah. How did you get into using even like reality TV as as your examples and to really like, analyze it, it obviously makes it very relatable for the general population. But how did you start doing that?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, Liz, my personal story is that I say that it was in watching The Bachelor that I found my own love story with my husband. I was later in life, I was dating at 40. The Bachelor has been around for 20 years. I don't want to age myself, but, you know, I really would watch the show. And I loved the dates. I love, like, how formal it is. But you know, what really stuck out to me is that people were being their authentic self. And we don't oftentimes and I know, you know, people say it's highly edited, it's highly produced. I know all of that about reality TV. But how else do you ever get glimpses into people's personal lives unless you see it on TV? Yeah, we don't. And as a therapist, as a psychologist, I can't use my own clients. Right. As examples. And so using media psychology as a forum to then say, this looks good, do more, this or that wasn't done so well. What if they had done this instead? And then using it as a way to talk about attachments? Styles to me has just been like a beautiful blending. So I would have my clients like In Session, and then at the end of the session they'd say, What do you think about The Bachelor last night? And I'm like, Oh my God, I have so much to say. So I thought, Well, why don't I start, like, bleeding that into my feed? Because there's is a huge platform for people to talk about these shows. And then Love Is Blind came around and so many other shows. And I just think it's been fascinating to kind of use that to tie it all together. So it's been a lot of fun.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, No, for sure. And yes, that people really get they're able to see the real life. They're able to see the interactions. And you're right, like we're not able to use clients. We're not like there's not other opportunities to do that. So I think it is a brilliant approach that you've taken to that, and I can most certainly relate to my clients asking me after a session what I think about various reality TV shows. So yeah, as I told you before we started recording, Melissa and I, the producer, we are huge RIA reality TV people, so love that you've been able to do that. I was cracking up. I was at Happy Hour earlier this week with three of the providers for my practice and we got on the topic of reality TV and we were cracking up that all four of us. So we all watch different shows. Yes, but that all of us actively watch it and that we people give us a hard time of like, you're so educated, this and that, and that's how you spend your free time. And we're like, No, that's exactly why that's how we spend our free time, because it is just like mind numbing. And we don't have to think, overthink anything.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
100%. We all need a little bit of levity too. And sure, I'm watching other things like squid games and, you know, there's there's a lot of entertainment out there. But I also do think that there is a little bit of an educational piece, too, because of so many people are watching it. So I like watch it the first time around, sort of enjoying it with my popcorn. And then then I go back and I kind of watch it again and really kind of analyze it because I know if I start right away, I just can't like, consume it. So I like to go back and watch it a few times.

 

Dr. Liz:
I love that.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
So what is it your come out?

 

Dr. Liz:
Oh man, I watch a lot of the housewives that and I that's our thing is pretty much I think we watch all of the different cities. So that is the main one. I used to watch The Bachelor. Not so much anymore, but yeah, I am not too particular when it comes to reality TV, so I welcome it all.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And something like 80% of people who watch TV, watch reality shows, so huge. I mean, just HGTV. I mean, there's so much out there for everyone. If you want to see a home remodel or if you want to see relationships, if you want to see women friendships in terms of the house wide selling sunset, I mean, there's there's something for everyone.

 

Dr. Liz:
Agreed. So when it comes to betrayal, this is most certainly something we see in reality TV quite a bit. The housewives, though, that's friendship based. It happens all of the time. And you were mentioning before we started recording with The Golden Bachelor, which I have not been able to watch yet, but please give all the spoilers because I want to know how this applies. And when you you said, you know, that there was a recent betrayal on there. Give us a little understanding of some of that.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, and I think if we if we and what's interesting to just thinking about betrayal sometimes when a woman betrays you, like on the Housewives because you didn't have your guard up like you might have if it was a dating relationship, sometimes it hurts even worse. Like I had a bit of a betrayal with a good friend of mine many years ago and I have to tell you, it's it hurt just as much as a breakup. And then I think on on The Bachelor, The Golden Bachelor, what we saw was really what they called kind of a blindside, because Gary, the Golden Bachelor, was down to the final two. And in the fantasy suites, which are kept private, though really convinced this one woman, Leslie, that she was the one. And so then in the final reveal at the finale, she wasn't the one and felt betrayed, felt blindsided that he had, you know, essentially told her, you're the winner. And then did one aid and switched on her. And I think the common feeling, though, is just one of devastation, though, right? The feeling like, how did I not see this coming? What could I have done? How was I such a fool? In some ways.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yes, I think that that is most certainly the feeling of betrayal is especially when we feel the most betrayed is by the individuals we've allowed ourselves to trust. And that is the hardest part of it, is that we have let our guard down and we have given them vulnerability and rawness that we trusted them with. And so then when the betrayal happens and betrayal is a trauma, and I really try to help my clients to understand that, that you are not being dramatic. It's not something you need to get over trauma being defined as anything that shatters your worldview or send your nervous system into a state that is really hard to regulate. But when we go with the definition of it, shattering your worldview so something you once thought to be true now is completely ripped out from under you, that that is trauma and really hard.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
100%. And and I go, yes, and we could talk about big trauma versus small cheater. And then what happens is if you have consecutive traumas, right, Because so much in terms of dating and relationships, you have so many disappointments over time. It's consecutive. Right. And these things just keep adding up. And every time you put yourself out there and same thing like on the show, it's like I put myself out here and now. It didn't work then. How does that inform me the next time? But betrayal can be a blindside. It can be just two people going different ways, but usually there's some kind of shock, something that was surprising as opposed to like a relationship ending that you might have seen coming.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Yeah. And so let's define that, the difference of that. So I that's a great point, because sometimes betrayal with a relationship ending can be, as you're describing, blindsiding them with that. So you think everything is going fine and then the next day it's we need to have a talk and that can feel like betrayal because I have allowed myself to trust you that we were building this life together and planning our future. And betrayal most often gets synonymous with infidelity, which it's really not there. There is a distinction. So what are some really common forms of betrayal that you see in your practice?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm also thinking of, you know, feeling betrayed by a best friend or a parent who might say, your parents are divorced and you feel like your parent has chosen their new partner over you, the child. Right. That could feel a betrayal. I think just back to your point, which is like a change in your reality or something that just rocks your world. It's like grief. It's like, again, just shocking and then you have to you're left with like picking up the pieces. This person may not be in my life or in the case of, let's say there is an affair. That is a huge betrayal. Interestingly enough, Esther Perel, who writes about infidelity, says only 30% of those will like end and end immediately. The other 30% of people will kind of stay status quo and a third the third, the last third, 30% will improve their relationship.

 

Dr. Liz:
Interesting.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
So that's really fascinating because usually you hear like once a cheater, always a cheater or, you know, one in done. And that's not always the case. Sometimes these things can be repaired and so much of that is each person's history and how the couple kind of chooses to deal with that. Now, in in a friendship or on TV, it's like you have to really consider what is the what is the history. That's why it's just so hard to answer these because it's they're so nuanced. They're really just so complex. It's it's it's not a black or white.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think that that can be one of the hardest things about betrayal is that there there are these nuanced perspectives. And even the person who's doing the betraying has a lens of their own as to what led to the betrayal. And it is really common when you are the one being betrayed or that you are the one really being hurt in that to look at that other person as this villain, as this monster. Like, how could you wear that person? Yes, we know that there is the 1% of, you know, complete nasty like pathological narcissism. And we know all of that. But I would say a majority of the of individuals, maybe not 99%, but a majority of individuals, when they do betray, they have there is a perspective that they are holding as for the reason that they did that. And so even if we're going back to the golden bachelor, like I'm sure if we sat down with him, he would have this whole perspective of his own and he'd be seeing it through the lens of his experience and that it was not a malicious decision, though it was so painful.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Yeah. And I think reality TV is a little bit different from long term relationships, right? How someone might betray their spouse after years of feeling like they had unmet needs, right? I might have been signaling something and you weren't listening or I felt like you weren't listening. And then another situation presents itself. I think that's very different here. Obviously, people go on the show knowing that there is multiple people. So but I think any of us can get ahead of ourselves. And I do think in particular, if you have like an anxious attachment style where you had parents who were there for you sometimes not others, that you can quickly move ahead in your relationships. And like what happened to this woman, Leslie, with the Golden Bachelor, She said, you know, he didn't say, we're going to get engaged, but I had my whole life kind of planned, right? Like, right. That's the whole piece. It's like we have to own that part, too. I got ahead of myself because we get excited right? In dating or in a relationship, you just kind of assume some things and then the betrayal comes and, like, knocks you off your feet and what you thought was going to be your long term relationship or friendship even is totally shattered. Right? And you do have to then in, you know, we'll get to how to repair this then like take ownership for it. Like, how did I let that happen? How did I get ahead of myself? How did I go down that path? Was it blind, you know, faith or hope or was it not looking at the red flags or did this person really lie to you?

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Yes. Which again, you know, that's a great point. So the different perspectives in that and it's in the same way, it's hard to look at it. The person who betrayed you as they have their own perspective and their own story as to what happened, It's also hard to look at your role in it as you're describing, to say, like, what did I miss along the way? Or how did I, you know, turn a blind eye to some of this and that? I experienced a horrible betrayal recently in that, you know, when I reflected back, I'm like, no, there there's months and months and months of me letting things go and me making excuses and justifying. And then when the big betrayal came out, you know, of course, that's devastating. But then it's like but also no shit, because, you know, look at all of these things that he was doing along the way that he was giving me very clear indication that like, I can't be trusted. But we make those excuses and that does tie into our attachment styles and it ties into what I call our relationship programing.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Some.

 

Dr. Liz:
Of those early life experiences with our caregivers and really sets the stage for what we come to expect and tolerate in relationships.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And so, Liz, might I ask, this was a partner ish?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, it was a dating type relationship, but yeah.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
I'm so sorry. I mean.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
I've had my own I had a fiancee who I found with another woman. Oh, my God. Early on talk about a betrayal. And it doesn't matter that we're therapists and we should have seen it or, I mean, it can happen to anyone with good intentions. And I do think what happens is a lot of people like, lack the courage to come forward and just own their shit earlier and say like, hey, this isn't working for me, or Hey, I need more of this or not. I think unfortunately a lot of people kind of act out that stuff. And then the other person who's sort of like the doer and then the victim, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Gets betrayed and the other person just might have saw it as well. This is like not working for me. And this is just the next step. Right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. Yeah. And that's so true that we can feel betrayed by things that weren't even intended that way when you were helping somebody work through a betrayal or even when you work through your own, where do you start with that process? So somebody is listening and maybe they've just gone through a horrible heartbreak. Where do you even start of like, how do we, you know, unpack this?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, first off, I think you just need to vent, right? Venting phase, which is like the anger phase I call it, which is more like activating. But it really comes back to your physiology and it comes back to I have kind of like a four step model that I help people even like how to heal your attachment style, because we talk a lot about attachment theory, but then it's like, Well, now what do I do with that?

 

Dr. Liz:
Exactly?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And the first is to figure out the physiology, right? When you talked about your nervous system. So I've had a betrayal. A girlfriend's betrayed me, a relationship has betrayed me. I need to get calm with myself because now I'm not sleeping right. Physiologically, I've also had, like, loss of dopamine from the positive content. Right? So my mood is plummeting. I'm super anxious. Maybe I have an abandonment wound from childhood. Now I feel abandoned again. So I'm like, right back in that pocket of.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, Diane, All of it. All that escape.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Yeah. So, so poly vagal theory says that, you know, the vagus nerve is the longest nerve from your brain stem to your gut and you need to calm it down. So I have like ten exercises. I give people even things like cold water plunges, deep relaxation, breathing there, certain yoga poses. Have you heard of something called a breathing?

 

Dr. Liz:
No, I have not.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
So Daniel Besser, Cough and Peter Levine, they have something called the brain thing, which kind of activates it. Sort of like connected with the eardrum, too. It's the breathing is really about a strong exhale. And so the idea is I have to like literally kind of like plunge it out. So if you Google vu breathing and there's YouTube videos on this, but it's really like taking a deep breath and then just like spewing it out with like a view or like making that sound.

 

Dr. Liz:
Got it.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And there's something guttural about it, but it's like, I got to take this and I got to calm my system down. That's the first step. Because if I'm disregulated from this betrayal, I can't think clearly. And the whole ideas, you have to calm down first, because my rational mindset has gone off the charts, right? When I flipped my limbic lid, as they say, I'm not thinking rationally. I'm an emotional mess. So be good to yourself. Do some of those. We have to, like work with the vagus nerve to kind of calm down. And I know for me, yoga is a big thing. I know running is a big thing doing meditation. Yeah. So when we talk about self-care, like that's the first step.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, great, great point. I love that. And yes, meditation has been a very active thing for me as of late. So yes.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
The other thing is sometimes to go no contact. Yeah, because. Right. The crazy thing about the brain and why I hate to say this, but death sometimes is easier than a breakup because we keep churning on the new things like, well, maybe they'll go to therapy. Will maybe that text, What's up? Maybe they want to get back together with me, maybe this, maybe that. And we keep our brain is actively working on this. But when I go no contact and I can't see and think, then my brain has more of a chance to calm down and to settle.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. No, such a good point. So these are step one then regulate, calm the nervous system. Get your prefrontal cortex back online. Start thinking rationally. Okay. I love that. Good.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
First step on percent. Step two is really more like what's called, like, your limbic system, which is like where my story of love lives. And this is sort of like inner child work going back to because now what's happened is I've had an abandonment when I was young, then my fiancee cheats on me and now it's like I'm back in this. Can't trust any one. Love sucks. Why bother? It's not worth it. And now I need to, like, work on integration, which is like my story of love and my story I tell about myself. Like I'm the victim or this always happens to me or I should have known. You can't trust anyone. There is that story that needs to be, like, reworked. Like your your narrative.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
So I know step two.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think that is so important. I just did a post on that recently on the stories we tell ourselves and that these situation happens and, and for me and with, with my trauma, as you're describing, not that you know about my trauma, but you are describing it my abandonment wounds. Of course, when I find out I've been lied to for months and months and months and then the responses then just to abandon me instead of try to fix it, Of course, that is like creating so many narratives in my head about my worth and about relationships, and that men just suck and all of the things. And then I have to, like, rein it back in, right? Because I don't I mean, I don't have a relationship with my dad, so that doesn't help. But then I think about my ex husband, who is a wonderful man and a close friend of mine, and I think about so many of my clients who are just really good men. And so then I have to start reframing this that like, No, there are good men. This, this experience does not it doesn't speak for the whole population of men. And I do have to remind myself of that.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
100% and is also owning that even though you could have been like the most perfect of partners, you're only responsible for half of that. And so you can't do all of that. I think the same thing, like, okay, I got cheated on that feels horrible. What did I do? That was one person who didn't have the courage to tell me otherwise. But not all people were going to be like that. And I think that's even like maybe you didn't have a parent who was there for you or when you were young. But that inner child work like I'm here for me now. Yes, I'm my own. You know, I'm re parenting a my own kind of parent. Then moving on to step three. But you can't get to three until you've done what to do is really the cognitive part. I mean, I was trained as a cognitive behavioral therapist at Stanford, and this is the reworking of your mindset, right? What you're saying to yourself about men, about yourself, about relationships. And oftentimes when we've been betrayed or hurt, we're going to have negative thoughts. And then you'd have to ask yourself, well, you know, what's the likelihood that this is true, that you'll be betrayed again or that all people are like this? It's possible, but not probable. Like I had that one horrible thing. I even had that sense. It's not like because the immediate thought is this is going to happen to me again. It's always going to be like this. And that was a surprise.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, Yeah. And that's the the approach that I use with relationship programing. That's exactly it of identifying even when I have clients who are like, okay, but the last couple people, there's been a lot of similarities and we have to dig in to how your programing is attracting those type of people, how you are attracted to those type of people. And it's that similar, whether it's the avoidance or it's somebody who's not actually emotionally available to you or available at all to you. And we especially if your programing is tied in to, as you were saying earlier, a parent that is maybe inconsistent with their caregiving or isn't present, that does become our programing. That is what we continue to seek out. Well, yeah, if we continue to seek out the type of people who have hurt us historically, it likely is going to continue. But you're right, there are and I remind myself, I remind my clients that, okay, maybe if there's been two or three out of 7 billion people who have hurt me in that way, it's pretty good odds of other chances to not be hurt.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, and endless what I say also, because I kind of got to that point where I did my own work in my own therapy and I also, by the way, went to seven different therapists. Seven, I went I was single.

 

Dr. Liz:
It's hard to find the right fit.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
It is. But, you know, I went to like the Christian therapist who would say, like, what would Jesus say? I'm like, I don't think Jesus would be in my situation.

 

Dr. Liz:
Jesus does not care about this right now.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Is not here right now. But I went to lots of different therapists and none of you know, some of them were very helpful. Of course, at the time. But I really then needed to just again, own my own attachment style and say I am the common denominator here and not all of them are going to be like this. But yes, what wasn't I seeing from the beginning? Like how did I lose my self? How was I not standing up for myself? How was I not? Because you have to kind of get into the mode of like betrayal prevention, right? Like if we're talking about betrayal, like, how am I going to prevent that from happening? And if I'm calling things out earlier, back to you said it kind of went on for months. Mm. Then it's less likely to happen or at least the shock of it because you've been on top of it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Or I should have removed myself. Right. Like I shouldn't have, like I shouldn't have been there for months of allowing this to happen then that is the empowerment I tried to give to my clients do, is that it feels hard because you feel with attachment styles and everything, you feel so hooked on it. Yes, but the long term pain is so much worse. So I absolutely agree with what could have been our role along the way.

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And step four, what I really say is action, which is the behavior like setting the boundary, like leaving, like putting yourself out there if you're, you know, needing to date, right? You have to then take action. So calm yourself down, rework your narrative, your your inner child work, think rationally as best you can on your part, but also recognize there's because this is 5050 and then take action, speak up, set boundaries, ask for what your needs are, because that way you're just feeling like you're more in control, right? Because with the betrayal, I feel like I've this has been done to me and I'm the victim. So it's all about like re empowering, even in an affair, which is actually fascinating. Part of the literature on affair work has changed. Well, before we used to tell, I'll say the victim versus the person who did the betrayal. We used to say, Let's talk about everything. Do you remember that night?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yep. Okay. Get asked all the questions. You get a period of time, ask anything you want.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
100%. But we didn't realize that that actually retraumatize as people agreed.

 

Dr. Liz:
I was just doing this work with a client about a year ago and her therapist was still using this old approach. And I said to her like, what is the value? A What is the value in you sharing some of that stuff? What to get it off your chest like that doesn't? And then what is the value of hearing that like.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, it's become like, oh, now, you know, it's one thing to think that like my partner had an affair on a trip or something. It's another to know where or when, how in my house, how many times, what day. That time I tried to reach you when I could. Now I have explicit details, memories, details that would have been better if I just didn't know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I completely agree. And that is that is definitely my approach. I dig in on what are some things that you need to know to feel safe and to move forward, not in terms of details, but in terms of like if you find out it was happening after work all of the time. Okay, what do you need now? Present day to feel safe when they leave work? Right. Those are the type of things that we need is how can we repair and heal and feel safe in it. But knowing the position that your partner cheated on you in that is night, what literal nightmares are made of.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Right. And it's interesting. I mean, I could see that the therapist, the original intention was to give the victim power, right? I felt powerless. Give me power by giving me details. Right? Yeah. I get the intention.

Dr. Liz:
Of.

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Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Course. But now a lot of it is how do we empower the victim, which is basically to identify what they weren't happy about in the relationship either. Because if I see myself, like, I've left everything about this person and then they cheated on me, I am feeling one down as opposed to now I start saying, What? You know what? I didn't really like everything about that. And then even as you process that relationship, that old relationship is death. Yeah. Okay, let's start fresh back to the What do you need now? Where would you what about your unmet needs? Because there are two people and then that helps to bring up the person to feel like they have more power not knowing the details of the affair. Right. So it's empowering, but in a different way to then bring out what were your unmet needs? How will this relationship be different? And then let's see where both partners are. Can you can they meet each other's needs?

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. And when I'm helping the person who has been betrayed and we identify and I talk about this all the time, but there are five needs there, five once in their five boundaries, because you're absolutely right. There are it's very likely if this is not always the case and I and I don't mean this insensitively, but often when there is a betrayal and I can identify it even in my own situation, when there's a betrayal, there were cues and clues and like there were things leading up to it. And so for them to take a step back and assess, okay, what were these things? And now moving forward, what do I need, which are my non-negotiables, what do I want? Which are my preferences and what are my boundaries? These are my dealbreakers. And moving forward, this is what I have. I have to operate out of this lens to protect myself, but also to ensure that there is equity and there's mutuality in this dynamic, either to move forward. But even if, let's say they decide they can't move forward and that when you go on to your next relationship, that knowledge of what you actually need in a relationship is crucial.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
That's right. That's kind of like divorce proofing or be, you know, betrayal proofing your relationship back to like prevention. If we ever get in this period again where you're feeling resentful of me or I'm not meeting your needs, you need to come to me and you need to come to me in this way. And I'm going to be more likely to hear it if you present it this way or we have a code word and you know, if I'm getting triggered, I say my code word, banana or whatever, right? Because that can happen again. Unconsciously. You get triggered in lots of situations. And now my partner knows I'm not in trouble, But I need to help you calm down because that's the couple's work is now one person's activated for your how is the other partner going to respond?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. And if you have a client, let's say, who decides to stay in a relationship after a betrayal, which is very, very common, and I want to normalize and validate that experience, that that does not make you weak or needy. Defective does not mean anything is wrong with you if you decide to stay in the relationship. But what are some ways that you help them to identify? Like, okay, if I'm going to stay, these things need to be different and this is how I'm going to know. Like, okay, maybe it is time to remove myself. Do you have any tangibles in that way that you help them so that it doesn't continue to happen? Right. And then it's like extending the grace again and then it continues to happen again. So how do you kind of help to safeguard that?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Well, the technique that we use is called leveling, and it's back to now. I want to understand from the victim what didn't work for them. And I also want to understand from the other part, because they feel like I'm in the doghouse, nothing I do can get me out of the doghouse. I'm going to be here forever. Yeah, right. So let's just talk about that old relationship that's dead. What what would we need instead? Like, if we had the opportunity to start fresh? Start with a whole new relationship? Remember back to when it was working, When it was good, right? We got to find out. Is there good foundation? If there was good foundation here, then that's a positive thing. We can get back to that. But if the foundation was rocky from the beginning, then I don't know what we're going back to, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Yeah. And that's a good point to be aware of. Is there even a foundation to revert back to?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Right. But if there was, because most of the time there is, especially if this is a marriage, right? There was some goodness, then you know what would it take? And maybe you need more skills. Maybe you need, you know, so maybe you've been suppressing too much and then feeling resentful. Like what? How are we going to make this relationship different? That works for both of you? That's really the question.

 

Dr. Liz:
And using specifics. So that is saying I need you to spend more time with me. What does that mean? What that look like? How are we going to know if that's being achieved? Right. And so I think the specific aspect of at least at the beginning as you are repairing so that, we have something that when you're sitting in reflecting, you can say, no, they did meet these needs that I clearly and specifically expressed and vice versa. But yeah, I agree that it both person's needs matter and checking in on that is so important. Dan, where can people find you? I really appreciate your insights. Thank you so much for today. Where can you be found on socials, website, everything like that.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
I'm I'm back to love Doc because I like to help people get back to love and everything else was taken in store is too long a name so I my website is back to love doc dot com. I have a quick attachment style quiz for people. Takes 2 minutes you'll find out what your attachment style. And I also have a partner quiz. So let's say I figure out that I have an anxious attachment style which I did. And then I find out that my partner, because it doesn't my partner doesn't have to agree. It's really how I see my partner. I find out that they're avoidant. Then I have tips for people on what to do. If one is and one is the other because there's four attachment styles and then there's four and there's also what I call kind of high and low expressive. And then so together there's ten different couple pairings.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay?

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
And I sort of help people like, what does that mean? Because you both could be anxious, which could work, but now you've got to like a lot of fire. How do you calm that down? So, you know, it's just a matter of balancing. It's a little bit like horoscopes, right? You're like an Aries, The other one, the Leo like how does that work together? And then on social, I'm the same thing. I'm back to Love Doc, where I do follow reality dating shows and I have a YouTube called Reality TV Therapy, which you can find on my Instagram. And I post videos going over all of these shows and. I really want to give people what I call Lessons in Love. So if you can relate to that character, what can you do to make your relationships better?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Such good information and the your website is so easy to find from your Instagram and has really valuable stuff even on your website. Like so even if you know people aren't because you offer programs to purchase or I have.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Online courses to help them, like how to be secure. So you identify what your type is and then you go through these four steps which look different for each type. So I have online courses. I do also have a blog and newsletter, and so I like to be in touch and I've sometimes offered free webinars. I do like a galentine's because relationships are hard, but the most important thing, you know, life is short and you realize at the end of the day, you don't oftentimes wish you worked more, you wish you loved more, you wish you had more connections. And so even the older I get, I just really value relationships more than anything.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, I totally agree with that. And humans are designed for connection, and that is when we feel most alive and most fulfilled. So I agree with that sentiment for sure. Thank you again, Diane. I really appreciate this so many good insight, so much good information. Thank you for being here.

 

Dr. Diane Strachowski:
Very welcome and happy holidays.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you. You as well. Thanks again, Dr. Diane, for providing us with some great tips on how to heal from betrayal. And thank you all for hanging out. Unrelatable Relationships unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered.