Relatable podcast 

Episode 45: mo money mo problems with ashley shepherd

Dr. Liz hangs out with Ashley Shepherd, Certified Public Accountant, to chat all about managing money concerns in relationships. Dr. Liz and Ashley discuss common reasons that money becomes a source of conflict for many couples and ways that these types of issues can impact the relationship as a whole. They discuss their personal experiences with finances in relationships and provide some tips and tools on how to communicate more effectively about this sensitive topic. They also provide ideas to ensure there is financial compatibility before moving forward in a relationship. You don’t want to miss this very relatable episode all about Mo Money Mo Problems!

transcript:

Dr. Liz:
Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered. We all know that money can be one of the biggest sources of conflict in relationships. And today I'm hanging out with one of my favorite humans, Ashley Shepard, certified public accountant. She's providing us with some practical tips to reduce our money troubles.This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Hey, Ashley.

Ashley Shepherd:
Hey, Liz. How are you?

Dr. Liz:
I'm good. How are you? It's so awkward hanging out in a such a formal way.

Ashley Shepherd:
I know normally we're like, side by side in person.

Dr. Liz:
We normally. Yes, normally are over fancy steak dinner and nice glass of wine.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yes.

Dr. Liz:
We spend our money very well.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yes, we do.

Dr. Liz:
So we know that money is such a big source of conflict. I mean, it's one of the top, you know, next to sex and communication, all those things. So from your experience with working with so many different people in so many different contexts and you work with a lot of business owners and things of that nature, what do you see when conflict comes up around money, like in relationships? What are some of the sources of that?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, I think a lot of people have different like money, like views on money, or they weigh it differently in terms of importance. Some people really focus on it, other people don't. And then in terms of like just your mindset around it. Like as business owners, like you and I, we're very we're very driven and like, you know, money is a product of that. And other people, they they have their priorities elsewhere. And like money is just they a something that you have to get. But then maybe they don't care to get a lot of it. I don't know.

Dr. Liz:
Sure. No. And I see that like yeah, I see that a lot. And then that those differences in opinion and they come together in relationship and there's this expectation about like combining finances. But when you have such differing views on money and such differing views, not even on like not even your values system, on like what money represents to you, but how you spend it, how you use it, which I because I think those are two different things, even because somebody could be like their value system is, oh, you should save and be frugal. But then they're on Amazon like every night, you know?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Liz:
Not talking about myself, but I'm just paying all.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, it's, it comes down to also a big thing is a lack of communication about money. You know a lot of times couples will have one will be the spender, one will be more frugal and they don't talk about it because they just it starts a fight. So they decide to just ignore it and the one resents the other or vice versa. So I think the lack of communication is huge as well.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. How do you help people? So obviously that's not you're not directly helping them with those type of things. But I mean, I know firsthand from you being my accountant that we do talk about things in our in our calls that are, you know, beyond just the numbers. So I know that you are providing support for people like you're helping challenge perspectives around money and things like that. So when you start to see that happen with the clients that you're working with, what do you usually suggest for helping them either like to make their views, you know, come more in alignment or like, what do you usually do around that?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, well, little did you know I'm also a therapist.

Dr. Liz:
Little did I know because.

Ashley Shepherd:
I can't act as one.

Dr. Liz:
You know what I mean? You know, being my therapist, usually about once a month. So.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, well, you know, most of the time I'm speaking with one person at a time. And so if we don't have any, like, financial or business things to talk about, I usually am probing questions. And like a great example is I have a client who's married and the the one is very involved in the business and wants to grow and is very, very a numbers oriented person. And then the spouse is kind of more like, you know, Oh, I just want to create all these things. But they're not focused on the numbers. And a lot of times it's like, okay, well, talking about like, okay, how can we get you guys a little bit closer to to seeing, you know, understanding each other and like how to how to make it work a little bit better. So just like kind of like talking through that with them is, is helpful to kind of understand like, okay, so you're this type of person, they're that type of person. Like what are some things you can do to kind of try to make it work? You know?

Dr. Liz:
Do you see that pretty commonly that. Is it like really common for a couple to have different like pretty different views? Like what is more common for them to be more in alignment or for them to have different views around it?

Ashley Shepherd:
I would say it's most common that one person is the one very involved in it and the other one is like checked out like you're taking care of it. I'm not involved. You do that. I don't do that kind of a thing. That's what I see a lot. Yeah.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And that gets super sticky because. Because I see that frequently as well. And then the person who's focused on it often feels like they are alone. Yeah, but also like being controlling or there being like they are almost parenting. They're almost the authority on this thing. And so it becomes this. Like, I'm like, Why are you always so worried about money? Why are you so controlling with it? And then the other person's like, Why aren't you ever paying attention to it? Like you don't even know what our balance is right now.

Ashley Shepherd:
Right. Yeah. Like maybe if you were more involved, you wouldn't feel like that because you'd understand, like, what I'm seeing. Yeah. I think it really comes down to, like, we got to come together and, like, talk about it and, like, openly plan together. A lot of people are just kind of going day to day without like a financial plan, especially if they're in a partnership, married or whatever, and they're just kind of going day by day. No, we have no plan, no like, set like goals as a couple, like with money, you know.

Dr. Liz:
Let's start there. What would be some ideas for even putting a plan together? Because I mean, that is a great point. I completely agree that one person is almost always in the dark. And a lot of the conversations that I have is the literally say, like if my partner passed tomorrow or or wanted a divorce tomorrow, I don't even know. I wouldn't know how to pay our bills or I wouldn't know what I'm entitled to or anything like that. So what does that look like for these, like initial meetings to put together a plan and to get everyone on the same page?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, I think that like the first step, I think is like, okay, we have to get comfortable opening up and like having like maybe they have like a little monthly meeting where they kind of review stuff like, you know, let's kind of review what we have going on and then maybe set a couple goals of like, Hey, this is kind of like, what do we want to accomplish as, as a couple or a family and kind of just kind of at least keep the other person in the loop?

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Is that usually look like savings goals or like budgeting or both or vacation goals or how.

Ashley Shepherd:
It can be literally anything, you know, reducing expenses, paying off debt, investing more. It could be just kind of being more creating awareness, like where is all my money going? What are we spending our money on? You know, maybe they have certain goals, like they want to buy a house or they want to relocate, you know, stuff like that. So.

Dr. Liz:
Are there like apps or methods that you suggest if somebody wants to keep better track of, like where they're spending is going or for for even a family to be on the same page with it?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, I mean, I use a lot of like spreadsheets, but I feel like you could easily use like men's or any of those like personal budgeting tools where they just connect to your bank and then you can see like, okay, I've spent this much in dining out and your groceries and your home expenses. And then one thing that I really like personally and to work with some clients on is tracking your net worth. And some people have a negative net worth and that's okay. It's looking at it and saying, Hey, how can I get that number less negative and going in the right direction? So like tracking all your assets, all your liabilities, like your debts and figuring out like my numbers this right now, like next month, I want it to be a little bit better, even if it's $1, you know, like really focusing on just like overall improving that over time.

Dr. Liz:
It sounded very therapist of you to say some of them have a negative net net worth and that's okay. That's okay. We're going to get you there.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, you everyone start somewhere. Some people have kind of put themselves in a you know, they're in a bad position and that happens and it's all about learning and growing from it and like, okay, like, yeah, like I don't like the number I see right now, but like, you can like, it's better to just change and go forward then. Okay, I guess I'll just dig myself a bigger hole. So it's accepting the fact that your are where you are and you can always get better.

Dr. Liz:
So yeah. And that awareness, I mean, which I talk about in so many areas, but that awareness is so important versus keeping, you know, your head in the sand around where the finances are at or, you know, some people like maybe that's their only option is paycheck to paycheck. But even with that, that's often sometimes there are other options of even like, okay, if I know this is what it looks like, maybe I'm going to do like DoorDash a couple times a week or I'm going to start selling some stuff around the house or things like that. As you're saying, just even if the next time you go to check it, it's improved a small amount, like you're still working towards that goal.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, I always encourage people to get, you know, if they're, you know, they're working a job and, you know, they're stressed about money. It's like, just find one thing that you really like to do and like and, and make that like a little side like a side business that doesn't need to be crazy, but like finding a way to do something that you like or something that you can do, that you can just generate a little bit of more money from because you, you probably have some time you can devote to that. And then if you're less stressed about money, chances are your life's probably got a little bit better.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, for sure. And I think money becomes one of the biggest sources of resentments when I'm talking to couples about kind of like, you know, before they commit. Talking about financial compatibility. So your spending habits aligned, your value systems align. How important do you see that that becomes, you know, when there is a lack of compatibility and well, let's start there and then have a follow up question from there.

Ashley Shepherd:
Um, can you repeat the question?

Dr. Liz:
Nope.

Ashley Shepherd:
Looking at my line with like forward.

Dr. Liz:
You're thinking about my next question. Well, the financial compatibility piece of it. Like, do you see that be like, so we know that that's important. But like, how, how important is it when you see even how successful people are with their and I guess even when we're looking at a couple. So maybe the couples that are thriving versus the ones that are struggling, does the compatibility have anything to do with it or is it even if one is good at money, then they're thriving?

Ashley Shepherd:
Well, I mean, I don't have the statistics behind the nine here, but I would think it should be more of a important topic. Well, I think a lot of couples, they and I may be generalizing. I don't think that a lot of people do say, hey, on the money side, we are incompatible. How can we get to a place where we can kind of maybe meet in the middle somewhere or you can at least understand where I'm at and I can understand where you're at. We can have some understanding us, like how are we going to make this work together? I don't think a lot of couples actually have those types of conversations. And I do think that, you know, if one person is successful, you they're they're making most of the money. I don't know that there is like a oh, the other person is not. But I imagine that most many couples do not have the same view, the same importance, the same, you know, beliefs behind.

Dr. Liz:
When you start working with them. And maybe you're helping them come up with like game plans. They're talking about the importance of communication around it. Do you actually see see them meet in the middle? Like, do you see improvements with that? Do you see the one that's maybe less interested become interested?

Ashley Shepherd:
I once in a while I'll see, oh, the spouse is going to start participating in these conversations. They get more involved. But from just what I've seen personally, it's usually like the one person is dealing with with it. And then maybe because the one person is running the business, the other person, they actually have a job and that's what they're focused on, you know what I mean? So I think it just depends. But I think oftentimes it's the one person's dealing with it because the other has no interest, doesn't understand it, and they've just kind of maybe decided that, hey, like you're better at this than me, so I'm going to let you stay in your lane. I'm going to go over here, even though I believe that they should both be in that way. And and like talking about it openly together so that they're both kind of aware of like, what's going on.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Do you think our beliefs like, do you think I guess like our financial values that they do shift over time?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, Yeah. I would say I think that they can if you, if you want it to. Right. Like ten years ago I was like literally budgeting like a fool. I was like every penny. Like literally every penny. $0.17, Like every single penny. I was like, budgeting where it is going and where's it going? And it was like, so much where, like, I believe in energy a lot. Like, I felt like I was like holding on to it and like hoarding. But that's just telling, like the universe, like, I, like I don't need anymore, you know what I mean? I also like scarcity mindset, whereas I decided like, I don't want to I don't want to live like that. I don't want to have limited resources. I don't have unlimited resources. I want to not be stressed about money. And so it took many years to get there. You have to figure out, okay, well, how am I going to make that happen? But was it it was a choice. I could have stayed where I was somewhat comfortable, broke, you know, I could have stayed there. And I would have been okay. But, you know, I didn't want to live like that. I didn't want that that I don't want to be like that. And so now, you know, fast forward, you know, ten years later, you know, money is not really a stress. It's still a an important thing for me, but it's not like the end all be all. And I can see money and and everything. It's like totally different views, mindset, everything. Now I'm like, you know, I want everyone to just have to have all the money that they can have and like, it's just unlimited and like, go get it. You know, it's out there. So totally different than how I was.

Dr. Liz:
What do you think shifted your motivation? Like what? You know, because I obviously have a lot of clients that they want that and they talk about wanting that and they're like, how can I change that? Change that? But what was what got your snowball kind of rolling and what motivated that?

Ashley Shepherd:
I was actually working. I had a job a little bit after college and I remember sitting there, I hated it. I was working this job with it was a small, a small office. And I just remember thinking, you know, the men were running the business. And then it was just like this, like thought in my head. I'm like, if I don't change myself, I'm I'm going to be here in like ten, 20 years and I'm going to have made no progress in my life. And so just kind of, you know, seeing that some people have stayed there for that long, you know, I'm like, I don't like I, I want to excel and like, do all these other things. And I can't have that with where I'm at right now. So I really just that night I went home, I'm like, okay, what do I need to do to, like, get in different position? You know? It was for me, it was, okay, I'm going to go get my CPA license and like, what does that look like? I have to go find a school to go to to get the credits to get and then study for the, the license. And like all like I literally mapped out the steps. I'm like, it's going to take me like, I don't know, three years or something, you know? And so I like literally mapped out the whole process what I needed to do to least get into a better position where I had more value. I could solve people's problems. I could, you know, charge more for for my time, my, my knowledge. And that was really the the that was my journey personally.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. So really identifying like, what is this goal and then what is my first step towards that. And I think thinking about it in terms of relationships, like I think that that is really applicable or that you sit down with your partner and you're like, okay, what is our what is our first goal and what can we each contribute to this, which we also see as often a barrier as feeling the differences and in a contribution in that way. How do you feel like your your values around money or spending? How does that influence your relationships? And I guess even like from your relationships ten years ago to present day, has there been a shift in partners you choose because of that?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, it's becoming more of a today. It's more of a conscious something that I look at because, you know, ultimately I want someone who we kind of we can align, we can find like a middle ground at least because you know, I don't I don't really don't want to be held back. And I think that if we can't at least get on the same page, like energetically, I worry that someone who has different, like complete opposite money beliefs as I will, you know, that will be in my environment, the energy can kind of like bring you back down where I need to feel. Instead, I need to feel like abundant. I need things to feel abundant. I can go get it. And it's you know what I mean? And so I'm definitely very aware of that. So I as online dating, even in the past little while, I feel like I have not been as conscious about that and I have, you know, I don't know. I'm attracted to people who are like, I want to go hustle and like make it happen. And like, they're financially independent. Can't say those are always the people I've ended up with in my past, but it's definitely it's definitely a desire because I know, like, I worry that I'll that I'll be held back in that way.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I think that's something that you and I talk quite a bit about in our personal conversations in terms of we do have a very driven mindset, like we are both hustlers and, and we're passionate about what we do, which I can identify as a blessing. I know not everyone is passionate about what they do, but that becomes important to us. And there is a struggle in finding compatibility in that. And I know for myself, like a lot of times, because also the Stigma Society puts around money, right? That like you're greedy, you're, you know, all the capitalism stuff, just all of that, that it's like, like there's something wrong with you if you are a hustler. But as you're saying, no, that kind of switches your quality of life when you have when you go out and you're receiving that. And so for me, like it's not money that I'm chasing, it's the ability to travel and to experience things and to go to nice steak dinners with my best friend like those are the those are the things that I'm chasing, those experiences which choices you need money to, you know, to be able to provide some of the I mean, an airline ticket. Yeah, you need money. So with that, though, like, I know that I catch myself, like I get in my head around that because I'm like, okay, are you just being shallow because you want a partner who can match you in that? But I don't. Do you struggle? Well, you kind of know the answer, but share with us about how you kind of struggle with, you know, that push and pull as well.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah I yeah, I definitely struggle with it. I think also sometimes I, I naturally am like, you know, I don't want to take care of someone like have to cover their needs like too low but I do like, I like to be able to treat someone, you know, like do nice things for them because I can, because like you said, we have we have the choices that the the ability to do that. And I like to do that. But I also my concern is, you know, is that people are going to take advantage of it. They have in the past. You know, so that's a concern as well. As, you know, our our people are people with us because we, you know, for the right.

Dr. Liz:
Right.

Ashley Shepherd:
That or because we can provide an experience or an option or, you know, something, a life, you know. So that's definitely, you know, a concern.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. You know, and I think with those gender differences as well. So like it it is the stereotypical gender differences, I think come up and we definitely don't fall into that. But with that being said, I've actually seen where we know historically it's very common for a male to be like protector provider. But I've been seeing even like all genders, kind of hustlers of all genders, kind of getting fed up with this. The the idea of like, I'm not busting my ass so that you don't have to.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, yeah. That I mean, that becomes like but again then it come, you know, like you can love somebody who maybe doesn't make the same or doesn't have exactly the same compatibility. But I do believe there has to be some some similarities and some alignment because again, it leads to so many resentments.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah. And I think a lot of it is, okay, maybe you don't make the same amount, but they have the same drive, the same level of drive or clo. I mean, not everyone's going to be a we're exactly the same drive. Like that's kind of impossible. But seeing their actions right there daily, what they're doing every day, are they like chillin on the couch and they're like, Whatever, I don't really want to work today. Yeah, you know, Or are they like, you know, I'm fucking hustling, I'm doing everything I can. I'm like, you know, they're passionate about what they're doing. And that's that's different, right? Yeah. But yeah, yeah, we're not, we're not hustling so you don't have to like and maybe they, maybe they contribute in other ways as well, you know, they're hustling in different ways. Right? Non-monetary. That's, that's a possibility too.

Dr. Liz:
And that's so true. I mean, and I love that you're making that distinction because there are going to be the partnerships where it is. It's agreed that you are going to go make money to support your family and you're going to take care of the household management and things of that nature. And you're absolutely right like that. That is not our point here. I think it's more we're talking about the discrepancies in mindset versus income versus what's being generated.

Ashley Shepherd:
Right.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that I mean, yeah, I know for me that that's that's one of the biggest barriers. But for people who are listening I think that that you know focusing more on what do your value how do your value systems align versus how do your paychecks align, so to speak?

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah. So tell me more about your values.

Dr. Liz:
Tell me more.

Ashley Shepherd:
Lines up in your life.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. I mean, I think similarly and and because it because there is a bit of a traditional gender role reversal that that I don't need to be I don't need someone to take care of me. And so I become a lot more selective in partnerships because of that. So I think for me sometimes it becomes a barrier because then I want somebody who can match that. I want a partner, I want a partner, and so I want somebody that is on that level with me. But also, I think, you know, me being in hetero relationships, that men, they I mean, if I had a dollar for every time I heard how intimidated they were, then I would have enough money for you and I to be able to just, you know.

Ashley Shepherd:
Trips. So, yeah, I can imagine that's hard.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. But I mean, in that piece and not all men, I don't want to say, you know, I know men are listening. Like, that's not I know that's not all men. But I think that that's, that's often what I run into or men may be that are kind of on a similar hustler level. They're often used to being the provider, like they are used to that role. So even if they're not intimidated by it, it's not something that they're used to.

Ashley Shepherd:
Or maybe they don't know how to like, Oh, you don't need me to take care of you. So what now? I have to spend time with you or like, do some like, like you know what I mean? Like, Oh, now I have to, like, give myself in a different way that maybe they don't. They can't or they don't have the bandwidth to, you know. Sure.

Dr. Liz:
Which is exactly. That's exactly I mean, quality time all day long is I will take over anything financial that you can provide. But you know, I yeah it becomes quite the interesting feat for sure. But for now we will remain single. When when do you think that people should start combining finances? Like what are your views around? So if people are dating, what are your views around combining finances in general? At what point what does that look like? Sorry, we're totally switching gears. I'm not reflecting at all. Ladies and gentlemen.

Ashley Shepherd:
That last, last thing I don't know that there is there's not a one way. I don't think I definitely I think that it's a it depends on the couple. I think that they should agree together, you know, But at the same time, like, I know that I probably wouldn't want to combine. I would want to combine all my money.

Dr. Liz:
What would that look like if you were to combine with somebody? And by the way, I'm not combining shit with anyone, so let me.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't think I don't think it's for me like, you know, maybe we have like some, like joint account for like shared expenses. But other than that, I personally don't see, I don't think that we need that, you know, I just don't think it's, I don't know what you're spending your money on. You don't need to know what I'm spending my money on. Like, we don't need to worry about the balance in the account or, you know, whatever. I think that if you do, if you do join up your funds, like you have a shared account for like your shared bills, your your home payment, your utilities, whatever. And I think it's I think it's okay if you don't. And I think it's okay if you both want to put all your money together. I think it depends on the couple. You know, how how their trust has their communication. You know, what are their desires like dependent. You know, depending on all those factors. I think that they can decide like, yeah, I think this is for this is how we want to do it. That's going to work for them. I think that's the way to go. Yeah. You know.

Dr. Liz:
I, I think that's the most important like blanket statement of this is that there is no right or wrong. So like whatever works for the couple and whatever feels like safest and most comfortable because also looking at the differences in dynamics. So if somebody is managing the house and they're not working outside the home, then of course there's going to be that the joint funds and that makes sense for people who are dating, who each have their own incomes and they're coming together. Exactly what you described to start with is often what I suggest to my clients is like, you guys have this joint, like a joint fund that you're determining how much you're each putting into, which again, is not always the same dollar amount. It might be like the same percentage though, so you're each putting X percentage or whatever that looks like. Yeah, but then that becomes the the family or the house fund and then you, you still have access to your own right.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah. I think that lines up more with, with me I think it just creates less less troubles between people you know. But yeah, I think at the end of the day, like, I think just kind of coming together and deciding as a couple like, hey, this is the way we want to do it, especially when you're dating another. You know, I personally don't think that, you know, I think if you're if you are in a committed relationship with someone, you don't need to get married to say, like we you know, we're committed here. But I think people naturally place a higher regard to, oh, we're married. So now we'll get now we'll join our finances. But I don't know that there's you know, I don't know that there's a reason to treat it differently. I think that when you're dating, like if you're committed to each other, you're in an exclusive relationship or whatever type of relationship you're in, you're living together. To have that pooled fund is fine. You know, regardless of your your status.

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Yeah. And again, it's it really yeah. Is what makes most sense. Do you have any like when you're maybe somebody is your client who is so maybe you're not working with a couple you're working with an individual and they've they're getting serious with somebody. And so these conversations are coming up. What like suggestions do you provide for them to, like, protect themselves financially?

Ashley Shepherd:
Um, yeah, it's like.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, no, I just say fuck it. Jump both feet in.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, well, honestly, most of the people most of the people come to me and then they start, you know, they're most of the people that I work with have been, I would say are in a, in a relationship of some sort. Primarily there are the occasional single clients I work with, and I would say that, you know, maybe they're like, Oh, I'm moving in with my boyfriend or girlfriend and I generally, you know, you know, I think that again, it's going to be determined based on like counseling. Have you guys been together? Like what are your plans? Like, are you guys are you going to rent a place? You guys both going to be on the lease? Like just having making sure that they understand, you know, their rights and like the things that they need to be thinking about. Like, okay, if you guys are buying a house together, you both are you both on the loan and the title, Like all those things, like just kind of going through it, making sure that they understand and are thinking about, you know, just kind of making sure that they're if we're doing this together, we're doing it together, you know? Right. Just kind of being more creating that awareness around, okay, well, if you do this, you can think of like these couple items and just making sure that they're having those conversations.

Dr. Liz:
And do you at what point do you think that couples, you know, if they're dating or whatever, should start doing financial planning together? Like, do you think they need to be living together to start doing that or like when they're like and then also, I guess if they're not of their funds aren't combined, do you still suggest that they do financial planning together?

Ashley Shepherd:
Well, I think it depends on like, are they in a serious like they're like, we're in this forever, you know, like what type of relationship are they and are they just dating? And they don't really know, like where it's going. If they both have come and said, I'm in this with you like this, you know, whatever.

Dr. Liz:
I got my person and where they are.

Ashley Shepherd:
I think that's a different conversation. And yeah, I think that they should start I think they should start having the conversation like, Hey, what are your financial goals? Like, what are you trying to accomplish financially? You know, are you trying to get into real estate or are you just trying to you're whatever, whatever it is? I think having the conversations as early as you can so you can start to learn and support each other. But I think it depends on the seriousness of the relationship. Yeah, if you're two months in, you know, you're moving in. You know, I don't know that you need be financial planning together, but at least you can start having conversations around, you know, where you see yourself going and like, what do you see? You're like, what are you wanting to invest in? And what do you want to do with your money And and, you know, stuff like that. I don't think it hurts, but like, it just depends on the relationship.

Dr. Liz:
Well, I think that there's different tiers to it because I think and it's what you're saying. So like if you're in this dating phase, I, I don't really think it's like maybe you're not on the first date. We're not going throw this out. So, like, you're not like looking to see what what you can get out of them or how much they're worth. That's not the point. But early, like if you start dating and you're like, okay, I could potentially see a future with this person. I think that's a great opportunity to start gauging financial compatibility. So as you're saying, like, what are some of your goals? What are you, what are you wanting to do with your career and, and getting an idea of spending habits as well, which you I mean, you could hang out with somebody just a couple times and have a pretty good idea of maybe what some of their spending habits look like. I mean.

Ashley Shepherd:
Maybe it's just.

Dr. Liz:
Saying that.

Ashley Shepherd:
The accountant and they'll say, Oh, I see all these things that they write.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And hope their accountant doesn't judge them when they make all those purchases. But you know, and then I think the next step of that is like when you do start dating, you can start talking about really if there is like alignment in that and getting on the same page. Because I had a client not too long ago and he was like, Well, I don't you know, I don't know if it's they're not really planning for forever, but they are serious. Not that they're not planning for forever, but it's like they're just haven't gotten there in the seriousness, you know, But he's like talking about the difference in in their finances almost as it's as if it's a lost cause. And I think that second stage is really like, can we find compatibility, you know, And then going into that third stage, which is like more of the planning together.

Ashley Shepherd:
So in that situation and like, yeah, I think, I think, you know, like, okay, I feel like it's a lost cause. Okay, well have we talked to the, the partner and like, is she, is he or she like completely adamant that they're not going to change. They don't want to know any other view. You know, at that point it may be a lost cause, but if they're maybe they just haven't had the right conversation or they haven't approached it the right way. They haven't said, hey, hey, honey, I really want to like, get on the same page with you and, like, figure something out. Like, maybe the approach is different, but like, even if it is a lost cause, like, what do you do? You see that as, like, a non negotiable, a make or break in a relationship as if one person is, you know, one way and the other, that opposite? Do you think that's like just break it off or what do you think?

Dr. Liz:
I think if you catch that early enough on, I do think that that for me that would be a deal breaker. But when when I'm thinking about like the needs, wants and boundaries that I suggest for people to identify in their partner, that would be something on my list that like I need somebody who is who is a hustler and who wants to work hard and has a good work ethic. And you know all of that. So and I guess because there's a couple different discrepancies we could see here, right? Because we could see if somebody is not maybe their work ethic is not the same. Right. But then also have spending habits are different spending habits. I don't know. I guess I don't know how much of a dealbreaker that would be for me because I am spending my own money and I'm not really worried about how you're spending yours, but I'm not going to spend mine on you because you have them here. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. So I guess there's a couple aspects of that.

Ashley Shepherd:
There are. Yeah, you're right. There are a couple aspects. Yeah. The spending. Yeah. The overall desire and view. Yeah, I it's a hard kind of a can of worms, honestly.

Dr. Liz:
But I do think that to some degree it does become a little bit of a deal breaker if there is a huge divide. But you made a great point that did you talk about it yet and in this particular situation. No like it was touch very much on the surface but it wasn't like how can we how can we start to come towards each other with the differences in our behaviors? And I think in the same way that I've learned over the years that couples really struggle to talk about sex, they really struggle to talk about money like both of them become such sensitive topics.

Ashley Shepherd:
Yeah, well, I think a lot of people in general don't know how to talk about money, because most of us, like myself as a child, we don't talk about money ever, you know? So that becomes a challenging thing to discuss, especially in a vulnerable place with your partner, you know, especially if they're the one making all the money or whatever. Like, that's hard to talk about. So I think, you know, I think that they it would be a good idea to have a conversation. And even if you get a couples counselor to help you facilitate it so that you guys can find a middle ground, because if you both want, it's work. And the one is like, hey, this is a real issue for me. Like we have totally different money views. Like, I need you to meet me and you need us to meet somewhere so that I can continue if that cares about that person wants it to work their most likely answer. You know what? I will? I will give it a shot. I'll try it and I'll try to get there. You know, like if you care about this person, like you're going to you're going to do that.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And I think sometimes the bigger issue is the other person doesn't even have the opportunity to show that I care enough to make the changes or whatever, because it just doesn't even get brought up. And I think you make a great, you know, a great point as to why when we think about our relationship programing, you know, our views on on money as part of our programing that we are, we were programed to think about it a certain way, to think about either the scarcity or the abundance mindset around it, how we talk about it, what's the etiquette. And if we don't dig in to that and create awareness around like, okay, is the way I'm acting about money because of my my own value system that I've created or because of what was passed down, right? We're just going to keep doing what we know.

Ashley Shepherd:
Mm. Yeah.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. So on that note, dig into your programing around finances and communicate about it with your partner and Yeah. And that it's there is no right or wrong. There's no black or white. You know, I think that like we're saying that what we want out of a partner that it can look different for everybody. And I think that you finding out what is right for you is most important.

Ashley Shepherd:
Absolutely.

Dr. Liz:
Okay. Well, thank you for hanging out with me, friend. I appreciate it.

Ashley Shepherd:
Emails are a blast.

Dr. Liz:
Where can everyone find you or what's your socials, website? Everything like that.

Ashley Shepherd:
I am all over Ashley Sheppard, CPA. I'm on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, everything.

Dr. Liz:
So you're just everywhere? I'm everywhere. Very popular. Yeah, she has lots of good tips and she's really cute and she would love to share all her cute tips with you. The tips aren't cute. They're very smart, but her face is cute.

Ashley Shepherd:
Hmm. Thank you.

Dr. Liz:
And on that note, I'll see you later.

Ashley Shepherd:
Sia.

Dr. Liz:
Thanks again, Ashley, for providing us with the inside scoop on how to manage our money better and relationships. And thank you all for hanging out on relatable relationships. Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered.