Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered. Today I'm hanging out with Tiffany, Danny and Kirsten Franklin, Divorce and toxic relationship coaches. We're going to chat all about healing after relationship trauma. This is relatable. Relationships unfiltered. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for coming out today like we were talking about before we started recording. We've talked so much ad nauseum about toxic relationships, which I'm sure you guys have as well. Like in everything that you do, I still talk about it, you know, on my Instagram and everything frequently. But I think what's less discussed, which is where you guys specialize, is really healing after that toxic relationship or after the relationship trauma. So that's why I want to jump in today.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
So I'm saying we're excited to talk about that because there's so much out in the world about what a toxic relationship and is and, you know, narcissism and different personality disorders and really focusing on, you know, what to look for. But a lot of focus isn't about how to heal. And so we're excited to be here and to weigh in.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, that's for sure. And I agree. Like, it's I talk a lot about we spend so much time on the awareness of everything, right? So the awareness of mental health, the symptoms, the awareness of what to look, the red flags like, we talk all about that. But then the what to do about it. Like, okay, we know all this and now what? I think that that's left out a lot, which is really unfortunate.

 

Tiffany Denny:
Yeah, we were just actually having this discussion this morning, in fact, about, you know, how it just feels so heavy on that side of, you know, in educating and informing. And we know what's important. But the beauty and I'm sure that you see this, too, is when you get a client and you're really starting to see change and starting to see them take their life back and heal. And it's just it's a beautiful thing to watch. And, you know, that's that's my favorite part about what we do is to be able to watch that healing happen.

 

Dr. Liz:
I completely agree. I just had a client tell me a couple of days ago, she was like so excited to tell me a story. I'm sure you guys get this all the time of she had this situation on a dating app and she handled it completely different. She felt rejected from the situation. But instead of getting stuck in these old toxic cycle behaviors or the fawning or, you know, she just kind of saw it for what it was she was able to recognize what about it triggered her and she was able to respond differently. And I think that's kind of what you're saying. Like, that's such a powerful moment for us in the work that we do, that we can see people responding differently than their old self would have.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Yes, that's the most rewarding part. We've also had situations this week. We had a client that gets stuck in the trauma jumping and the loops and just really struggles to move out of that loop and actually focus on the healing. And all of a sudden in the last like six weeks, we've noticed a huge shift. We're not trauma dumping, we're not just staying in the loop. We're not just sharing the same thing over and over about the same trauma, if anything. Now he's and there's actually a mal, which we love working with people from all sorts of different backgrounds. But there is something about when he just realized that all the sudden he was like, okay, I need to go internal and I need to focus on me and quit focusing externally and about what they did or who they are. You know, the trauma itself. But actually like how I heal because we the validation of like titling things and knowing what things are and what toxic relationships are, what toxic traits are, it's helpful and it's validating to hear that, Oh, that is something. I'm not crazy, right? Because I think that's why people focus so much on that. But when they can stop and go, okay, but what about what is it that I need to heal? What is it within myself? What? And I don't like to say what attracted that person, but what allowed me to keep that person here? That's the part I need to heal.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that that when we do that work differently because that makes me think of a client, he he said, you know, my previous therapist, she was great, but it was so much validation, which of course we all want to feel seen. We all want to feel heard, understood. He said, Though what I appreciate is that you'll challenge the perspective and that, like you help me to even see this, because this is the other part that often happens in toxic cycles and what happens when we over validate the assigned victims, so to speak. Like however we want to look at that, right? There's usually the person who is taking the brunt of the toxicity and they often will sit in that and sit in how they are the victim and how they're being mistreated. And it's an interesting perspective and we can help them to see where is that other person coming from, though, because generally they're not just it's not coming out of nowhere, right. Like it whether it's coming out of their own trauma or they're feeling triggered. And so really what I like to look at there is like, what is your role in this? Is is one of the places that I send them is that you guys do similar work.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Yes. In fact, we compared dance like when you're a dance partner and you've been in these toxic relationships and you're so used to the certain type of person leading you, so to speak, You're I, I try to teach them. I'm like, Hey, look, we need you're still doing the dance moves, like you're playing that role. It's not. And sometimes when people hear, well, where's your responsibility? What's your role in all of this? They immediately get defensive. I know if it if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't be here. And I'm like, I'm not assigning, like, who's responsible for ending the relationship or who's responsible for this or that. Like, because we live in kind of a black and white world. I'm I'm inviting them to look at it in more of a gray right and saying, okay, you've learned this dance. This is the type of partner you've been dancing mess up for so long. Those are the moves, you know, So that's why you can change out the bag of bones and end up in the same relationship, because those are the moves, you know, that's what you're attracting. That's what you're following. So it's time to learn some new dance moves. You know what I mean? And I think when they can start looking at that perspective of like, okay, and they can, like you said, move out of that victim mentality and start going, okay, this is about me. I don't want to stay in the victim. It's okay that I was a victim. There's nothing wrong with that. There might have been very, you know, abusive behaviors or toxic traits or something that happened to you. But we don't want to stay there. We want to still keep moving in our lowest place because we're not always in our highest place. We're not always going to be in a place where we feel good about everything we're doing. But when you can move out of victimhood and start taking your power back, change your moves, that's that's the best thing you can do after these relationships.

 

Tiffany Denny:
And I think, too, don't you see this? You probably both see this too, in your clients, but I think it's kind of like a light bulb goes off when they go ahead and they accept like what they played in it, their role, their responsibility. It almost just is a relief to them to carry some of that responsibility and to be able to go, okay, that feels better to me, and I can now start to move forward and really work on myself. So I, I love seeing that, you know, just those shifts when you see them in clients, it's pretty magical, actually.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Because when they're giving their and when they I've been there plenty of times myself, I try to be very honest and upfront that I struggle with a lot of this myself. And so when we, shall we say, give our power away in those type of situations and we feel so powerless, right? So it's like, well, they keep hurting me. Or if they just did this different or if they did this more often instead of looking out like what we actually have direct control over and it becomes an acceptance or change, like we can accept that this person is repeating these same behaviors over and over, or we can decide to make a change, whether it's in our own behaviors or leaving the relationship. But something I also wanted to touch on today because I'm sure you guys see this a lot as well when you do this healing work, it's not so easy just to leave a relationship as all of these means are trying real hard to get us to believe it is right. Like, well, we're not happy. Just walk away. If you don't like it, find somebody new. That is so unrealistic for a lot of people, which so we can kind of take it into the angle of like the trauma bonding. But I know there's other aspects as well. But let's start with the trauma bonding. How how do you define trauma bonding?

 

Tiffany Denny:

I define it as really becoming addicted to another person. You know, and I know that we've seen studies on it that when somebody's really trying to leave that type of a an abusive situation, you just see a lot of this same pattern that if like you had somebody that was withdrawing off of heroin, but essentially, you know, you go into that abuse cycle and it comes around the cycle and it's just always left with this hope that something is going to get better. And and every time you go into that cycle, it just wanes tighter and tighter. So that's the way I explain it to my clients, because it's it's fairly simple way. There's a little bit more complicated, as you know, version of that. But that's that's kind of what I use.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
The part that I've been frustrated about with trauma bonds, too. There's actually and actually just all of the words narcissist, gaslighting, trauma bonding. You know, Tiffany, you've been in this space for almost I mean, we're coming up on almost ten years and it's crazy to see how these like, I'm grateful that the knowledge is getting out there, but there's a lot of misconceptions and there's also a lot of misuses with these terms. But I saw a real the other day about trauma bonds because a lot of people think trauma bonds like a trauma bonding means you went through a trauma together or you're bonding over trauma. Like if you guys have similar trauma. Yeah, and that is not the case. Like he was talking about his workplace and he was trying to make a joke. So, like, I it's fine, but I did write it to let it go. It's fine. I was like, okay, I guess you're trying to make a joke because he's like, You know, when we go through drama at work or something, it's it's, it's not drama at work. It's trauma bonding. And I'm like, I get you're trying to make a joke. But the problem is, is when we make jokes using words incorrectly, then it makes us so people that actually have gone through that or they're trying to figure out what they're experiencing. When it's called a trauma bond, they're not sure what to do with that. They don't know what that means because they've heard all these misconceptions. So it's so important that we talk about terminology. We do use it correctly because then we can validate, like we said, validation is important, but it also makes it so we can start to heal because a trauma bond, it can take up to seven years to start doing like to heal from a trauma bond, as I'm sure you know. And I mean, it doesn't mean you're always in the same spot. It's a it's a journey gets better every time I say that to a client. They're like, it's good to be serving you this, but you're so addicted to those highs and lows. And I'm like, Yeah. And I try to tell them. And I think the thing about trauma bonds versus like an addiction, which it's when I can get them to realize there's a chemical and a physical piece to this, they give themselves grace. I don't know if you've noticed that in your work, but there's something is because we live in a society where if there's a physical piece, we're so good, I give it grace, right? Like mental health, really hasn't been giving grace until the last. I mean, really, we for the last 20 years, we finally started to recognize a lot of mental health pieces and give it validity and allow people to be human. And but like if somebody has diabetes or some other element, which I'm not trying to commit anybody, but we're so fast to be like, Oh yeah, whatever you need, like less sugar, sugar free, like, you know, that's a real trial for their life. So I'm not trying to minimize anyone's experience. But my point being is somebody in a trauma bond, we need to be that way too. Like if you have somebody that's in a toxic relationship and they're struggling to leave or even yourself, you need to give yourself that grace and realize they're also dealing with a physical element. Like there's an issue there. It's not just mental, it's actually a chemical bond to this person, an addiction. They're addicted to the highs and the lows of how they've been treated.

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Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and the intermittent reward system is what I talk a lot about. So even helping them to understand like the slot machine, why we get addicted to that type of thing, you know, like we give, we give, we give. And then sometimes or, you know, we're putting in, putting in and then sometimes we get back and it's that excitement of are we or are we not? And we don't ever know. And especially for those of us who were raised in really chaotic household. So like my parents relationship, my I mean, they were together over 30 years and the entire thing was a trauma bond. And so, like for me, that was my that was my only role modeling. That's all I knew. And so I find that's something I can get caught up in really easily because, A, the chaos is familiar to me, those ups and downs, that was the norm. So even though my logical brain is like, this is really fucked up and I can acknowledge that my emotional brain is like, but it's what I know, it's what I'm that's how my brain is wired. And so, like I know for my clients, a lot of people that is really where they get stuck. And so that trauma BOND And I'm so glad that you brought up that distinction because I hear that as well. All the time. And really what it is is like you are addicted to that person. And I describe it in the way that if the very person who is causing you harm is who you are, sitting there crying and wishing they were the one to console you, there is a good chance you are you're sitting in a trauma bond.

 

Tiffany Denny:
Oh, absolutely. You know, I see kids in trauma bonds with their parents all the time, just like you're talking about with your parents. And and it's true. Like that person that hurt you, you almost feel like they're the only ones that can make you feel better. So it's almost like you're getting a hit of of a drug when they come back around and they're kind to you and nice you and then all sudden it's like everything your body just releases and you just feel like, you know what? It's going to be okay. And then the unfortunate part is it happens again. And, you know, so it's yeah, that's a tough one.

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Dr. Liz:
And every time, every time that happens is we are solidifying that trauma bond tighter and tighter and perpetuating that cycle. How do you guys help people? Is asking for a friend over here. How do you help people get out of that? Like how when you are working with people and because even to your point about about it being seven years, I mean, truly, we sit with clients, it can be years later and they're still obsessing. I just what done it differently or how could I have kept them or what could I how do you help them to start to really reprogram that?

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Well, we everything we do it the relationship recovery, we really try to follow a three tiered system. And I mean, and when I say three tiered system, I mean, like we can bounce around because everybody's different. We don't just start somebody we're in a certain spot, but we always make sure they have a good foundation of healing. So this is like basic self-care. They're taking care of themselves. We just talked about how depleting a trauma bond is. So if you're so depleted in this relationship, more than likely you are self abandoning. You're not going to be able to even focus because when you're in a toxic relationship, especially one that's created that trauma bond, you're confused, you're running on fumes. So we try to make sure that they have at least they're doing something. And when we're talking about this, it's like very minimal. Like I remember Tiffany sharing a story about how she could just barely get out of bed. You know, walking to the mailbox was a big deal. So we're just trying to make sure they're doing really basic things. So breathing, don't check your phone, try to get some sleep, like just making sure they have a good foundation. Then we move in to clearing the trauma. And you actually hit it and you talked about some of these pieces. And we try to identify, you know, we talk about the the conscious brain and the unconscious brain. We call, you know, we've we call it the critter brain, which I know that's sometimes what we we talk about. So we talk a lot about the three brains and the limbic system and driving emotions of which part of their brain is still attached to this person because you even referenced in your own experience, you're like, I know this is really messed up over here, but I just feel so comfortable because that's what my conditioning and my template says is that this is love, safety and belonging. And so we really try to get to the root of where this belief came from. We do things what we call clearings. That's just meditation, really identifying the first circumstance. We do some child work and things like that, and we've just noticed a huge shift in our clients when they can get to the root of where this stems from. We see big shifts because we're just rewiring that template. We're working with that template, we're just giving a new template. I always call the filter like, that's a filter you had. We're just going to change it out and we're going to give you a new filter and you get to choose what it is this time versus, you know, whatever was fed to you. And you have control. I mean, there's so much research around neuroplasticity now that you can change. Like we were always told, humans can't change. You're just this is your deck of cards. Sorry. Goodbye. Like you're just going to repeat and you're generationally doomed. And that's all true. And how awesome is that? So we just try to really get them to buy into that and believe in themselves. But it is work. That's where the work is. We always say, This is your bootstraps, let's go. But that's how we identify and then we try to focus moving forward. That third tier is just more about them starting to believe in them again. And I think there's one part I really missed is we really try to peel off the shame. We really, really, really try to say this is not our own. You quit shaming yourself because when we add that layer of shame, it's so hard to go in and do the work because we're like, I shouldn't be I shouldn't be in a toxic relationship, I shouldn't be in a trauma band because a lot of people we work with, like I remember somebody said, Oh, you must work with really weak women. And they only said women, of course, of course. And I was like, No.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Most of the people I work with, first off, I'm like, Why do you think I'm doing this work? Probably went through it myself, so thanks for the insult. In some ways.

 

Dr. Liz:
It.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Was You got a lot of people, man. You have not had life happen to you and that's too bad. So you know they're not weak. Most of the people we work with are extremely amazing humans, and they do these really incredible things in their life. And so for them to be what they view as a failure in this relationship or be treated badly, it's it's really hard. And they shame themselves and beat themselves up for being in it. Because we work with airline pilots, we work with CEOs, we work with people that are running their own company. We work with we've had therapists, we've had nurses, we've had doctors, we've had amazing people that on the outside you would be like, Oh, they'd never be in a relationship like this. And that's why they carry so much shame because they feel like I can't be human because I'm superhuman. And I like to think that the superhumans are the ones that end up in these relationships because they think they can handle it.

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Dr. Liz:
Yeah, because we are stubborn and dedicated and we, you know, when we pick something, we stick to it. And yeah, I agree. I think that's a lot of, a lot of personality there in terms of really like the dedication, like, okay, I can figure it out and I'm going to figure out this time, no, it's going to. And that's where a lot of people get stuck because I work very similarly with a lot of high powered people that you would not expect that out of. But the common denominator that I have learned in my work for a very long time is that we are all going through it. We've all been through it. And even those of us who have done a lot of healing and have all of the tools and have all of the information, we are still human and we still have trauma and we still will be triggered on occasion. And so there's not a one of us who knows how to do this perfectly. It's just really about kind of what you're saying earlier, like raising that baseline. So we have like our our lowest of low, like we just, you know, incrementally keep shifting that up.

 

Tiffany Denny:
Yeah, I agree. And I think, too, when you talk to somebody that is experiencing a trauma bond, once they've you've helped them identify what's really going on with themselves. And if you can, you know, validate them and help them to feel safe and that they know that they have somewhere to come like every week, you know, and really get that help and that support. It just accelerates their ability to get out and to heal from that trauma. BOND And also, I think like as Harrison was saying, you know, I had a gal that she's a politician and she said, how did I end up here? I mean, how in the world with somebody like me end up here? And I hear that so often, Like that's just a big one that just comes up over and over again. And the truth is, is it doesn't discriminate. It doesn't it just affects all of us.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Well, nobody's teaching anybody that.

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Dr. Liz:
Nobody.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Sees in relationships or what to look for or like what you do, because people are like, well, you should just know that's the other part. You get one extreme or another. How would you know? And you should just know like, well, once you've learned, you should just know. And it's like, well, you have to get in a relationship with somebody far enough to start seeing the red flags and then you got to pull out, you know?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about that piece because the actual like the removing themselves. So you guys are probably working with clients that are even in the toxic relationship, I would assume, not just the aftermath of it. Yeah. How do you help people to start to make that shift So you know, like when they're recognizing this is toxic, all of the like, they can see clearly what's going on. How do you help them to start to decide what to do about that?

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
So my rule of thumb is, number one is we never tell anyone to leave a relationship much. We try to follow the same rules as like therapy. I know coaching is not regulated quite the same. I'm sure eventually it will be because there's so many coaches now. But we try to follow that same rule that we don't tell anyone to leave a relationship. That's not our job. So I think that's really important because even if we could, even if we did that, you have to be the one to decide that that relationship's done. There's power in that and there's a moment, and since you said we I'm going to assume that we've all been in that moment when it's like and if no matter who told us, no matter who tried to pull us out, no matter how much we heard, we have to want we have to be the ones to pull ourselves out. There's no one else that can do that for you. However, you don't have to walk the healing part alone. So the work we do is we just try to empower them to reconnect to themselves, because the problem is, is they've turned off their intuition. Typically they've turned off like the parts that are saying, Hey, this is a red flag and may and also educating, telling them what red flags are. I can't tell you I had a client that came back to us recently. And the reason she left, by the way, is I'm so glad we're talking about this because she was so ashamed that she was in the relationship in the first place. She came to us about past relationships and she was hiding her current. And then all of a sudden she she ran right in.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
And quit and just like out of nowhere. And we're like, okay. And I was like, She's going to come back. Like, I had a feeling. And then things kind of fell apart. With her current relationship. She came back, kind of shared everything she was. I was just so embarrassed to tell you I was in this relationship because I knew and that's hard. And so we really try to create a space of like, I don't care if you're in or out. I'm here for you right now. And if there's a part of you that feels like you need to leave, then don't ignore that, but let it build in you in you make that decision. But I'm going to walk with you no matter where you are, because the truth is, is like friends and family really struggle to be that person because then it feels like you're. There's a difference, though. I'm not enabling anything I'm supporting. Yeah, but and I also should put this in there. If somebody is physically in danger, that's a very different conversation. We will absolutely put them in contact with the correct people. If your life sin, danger, You know, I wish it could be that your mental if your mental health is in danger, that that's enough. But unfortunately, that's it's way more complicated than that. When you get into the mental if you are if they are in danger, that's a very different conversation we're getting People involved were saying, hey, you need to exit like that's different. But that's that's kind of where we start is just making sure that they know they're personally supported and then we just try to help them build their intuition and make the decision for themselves and ask them again, going back to that template, going back to that subconscious, why do you feel like this is love, safety and belonging, and do you actually feel like it is, or is that what you were conditioned to believe is love, safety, belonging? Because there's obviously something if you're looking up the relationship recovery and most times you believe I will tell you I have very few clients that stay just honestly don't they leave. I love the point.

 

Dr. Liz:
I love that you say that piece about though. Like, regardless, I'm here. Like, I that is pretty much always the sentence I'm leaving clients with as we wrap up is that, you know, especially because they're usually the ones like, okay, this is it. I'm going like, I'm going home, I'm ending it, you know? And they're so and that is what I always say is great. Like, if that's where you're at, that is wonderful. And also if you change your mind and you come back next week and you didn't leave, I'm right here like we are right here. And that doesn't change anything about our work together. We just keep going.

 

Tiffany Denny:
Absolutely. And the truth is, is it takes on an average, it can take somebody seven different times to get out of this type of relationship. So, you know, it's to be expected that there's a lot of back and forth and, you know, I, I second or third it that that's just the most important thing is that they know that regardless that there's no judgment coming from me at all. You know, I'm just here to to walk with you. And I think that is just so important to to help somebody know that they they're not going to have to live with the shame. You know, we've seen it in many, many clients. We've seen them come and go like that. So we we've like intentionally now really made that a focus when we start with coaching them because it's just, you know, it's just common for them to to do that.

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Kierstyn Franklin:
And I even tell people that I'm like, you're going to want to run again. Like, I actually told that client, I'm like, I know you're going to want to run, and that's okay, but I need you to recognize that you're going to want to run.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? Because we get to be that pseudo corrective experience. We get to hold, like we get to hold space for the imperfection. We get to provide that grace like that unconditional positive regard that they don't have to be perfect in order for us to still want to sit with them every week and to want to have those interactions, which likely they haven't had that the template they've had from childhood is perfectionism, pleasing codependency, which is then just translated. And so they're constantly again, we are constantly trying to please those around us and so like to have that. And I found and I encourage my clients this as well. I found that when I have friends that can hold space for me in that same way and a lot, like you said, it's hard when friends and family because they're so worried about them right. And of course, so they're worried about their safety and their well-being. And so it's really hard for them to be like, okay, you know, like I'm here either way. But I have found in my experiences, whether with this specifically or whatever it is that I'm struggling with, when I am that type of support system that is like, we're here either way, you know, like that's so powerful that I hope my clients to really recognize the need to develop that for themselves out. So it's not just me providing that support, right? They have that system. Outside of that.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
I love that because I agree. I even try to seek that in my own life. As long as we're we're thrown in the we here. Because the the thing is, until you realize it, when people and they typically don't mean to your friends, your family, the people you love. But when they put their timeline on your relationship, their making it about them because they feel so uncomfortable for you being in that relationship. And like I said, I don't know if it's always intentional. They just have they don't realize that they're making that about them instead of supporting you. So typically it's the people that are well adjusted, that are self-aware, that have done their own work enough to know, I know I want space held for me. I'm going to hold space for you. And those people are one in a million. And if you have those people in your life, you hold on to them because a what people don't realize that. I think it's kind of becoming into that self awareness. When people are self aware, they're able to create that space and they're those are really important relationships to have.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. Yeah. With the like piece of this, when they come out of the relationship and then you start the healing and like I was saying earlier, that a lot of my clients go into that self-blame. Tell me a little bit about the work that you guys so I know you said part of it is that you guys work on the same piece and everything, but when when somebody gets caught up in the loop of what could I have done differently or even how could I have kept them like so even if they identify how dysfunctional it was, but how could they have kept them? What are some tools or like what type of work do you guys do their thing?

 

Tiffany Denny:
For me, I think that, you know, is initially I do a lot of like reminding of let's look at the relationship as a whole because, you know, our brain likes to grab on to the piece that is like the good parts, the good times, you know, because it's true. I mean, there's a lot of a lot of good times and bad things that happen.
And it's an it feels like to me like once you get far enough out of that relationship, sometimes you can look back on those good times, maybe weren't like really good times, but maybe they were just little pieces or elements to it. But I like to start. That's how I like to start, is to have them really do some reminding and some journaling around it and really start to identify the pieces of the relationships, you know, that that weren't good. And then I take it and I turn the focus more on to the client and doing that inner work with, you know, the guilt and the shame of leaving or, you know, if I would have tried harder or even sometimes when that there ex partner or whatever gets into another relationship and it all and feels like, oh well she or he, they're better than me, they can have this, you know, relationship but just reminding them if, if that person's really who we, we think they are, then they're probably just going through the love bombing stage just like you did. You know, when you first started into it. So, yeah, it looks great. It looks magical that that changes because that person I mean, bottom line, the person that you know, has those toxic traits, they're not going to change unless they do something to change. And typically they don't think that that they're wrong. And so they're not going to change.

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Kierstyn Franklin:
Right. We also something that we've also found successful is we do something called the Book of Truth. Stephanie talked about journaling, but actually writing down things that happen to remind yourself because like she said, you kind of go back and now you go into this, you almost go to a honeymoon phase of the relationship. Outside of the relationship. Yeah. And then you're like, did that really happen? Or you almost have to remind yourself. And so that's why we like to write down the book of tours and then how you felt felt so when they said that or when they did that, how did you feel and actually reconnect to remind your nervous system? Because you start gaslighting yourself on most of the speculation and everything. And so it's so important to write down those truth so you can review them because like all of clients, that's actually a huge piece when they're in that shame of like, Oh, I did the best I could and this is the truth and this is my truth and this is what happened. And I see that a lot of co-parenting too. And they want to have like a Disneyland co-parenting experience and they think it's going to look that way. And so then we have to do the whole chores again to like, okay, this is who the person was in the divorce. Just because the paper was now signed doesn't mean that they're now dad of the year, you know, like or mom of the Year for that record. Like, it can go both ways, but there's just so much to that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah I actually like to do that exercise going back to when somebody is stuck in the relationship. Right. And sort of when they're really struggling to leave, like I have them start tracking that like daily, like was there conflict? It was a conflict about what was your role in it like that? They can get clear on that. I've even had one client I she did this prior to me working with her, but I it was a good idea. She recorded herself talking into like her. She was like in the midst of a breakdown after being treated really horribly by, you know, in this toxic cycle she was in. And she just recorded herself and was like, How many times are you going to keep coming back here? Like basically talking to herself like this is the reality of the relationship? Because you're right, when we start, then when we go back and everything is fine, or we let some time pass and we go into that honeymoon stage or we go into like this good side of them and we don't want to leave this good side of them. But when you kind of have that documentation, whether you do as a video, whether you write it down of, okay, this one moment was really great, but then we had these 15 in between that were really painful. That can sometimes just help to bring some clarity to, okay, maybe this is not because that is also such a common question Should I stay or should I go? Such a common question.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Yeah, we actually created a whole course about that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Oh, tell me about it.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
So we have should I say, or should I go literally the name. And because it is such a common question, they're like trying to figure it out. And what we do is we do identify because what we found is a lot of people don't know what's okay and what's not. And so we tried to educate on that. And then we talk about really analyzing the relationship because people don't like you were saying, like she's talking to herself. People don't sit there and sit and think about their relationship and really analyze like, how often is this happening? So we actually walk them through how to rank it so that they it's just more like taking inventory of the relationship. And then we talk about what steps forward look like, whichever version of it you choose, it might look like, Hey, I'm going to bring my partner because something's obviously got to change. So if you need to bring in another modality or maybe it's not so extreme that maybe you just need to add some extra resources and tools and learn how to communicate better. Or maybe it's you got to get out of there, it's time to go. Or maybe it's, Hey, I need to do my own self work and hopefully my partner will come in and there's just lots of different you know, you're in control of your there's lots of different roads you can go in these relationships. And so we actually included that for we included that into our app. We put it into our app because we felt like it was so important. It was a course that we also sell individually, but we're like, This is so needed because so many people are like, I don't know what to do. And so we just wanted to try to provide a resource on the Reclaim You app and just make it so people could easily access that and just do it on their phone and not make it not make it so like they have to have it up on there. Yeah, because sometimes you're in a relationship where it's scary to be like, I'm considering should I stay or should I go with you so it doesn't look so, like up on their computer? It's just on their phone. It's it doesn't show up as the relationship recovery in their bank account. We wanted to make it really safe. So there's there's things like that that I.

 

Dr. Liz:
Love that I felt. Yeah. No, that's a great that's such a great tool and I'm definitely going to refer people that way because that is one of the most common questions that I get. Is it only on the app they can access it or is it from your website as well?

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
You can get it both ways. You can buy just the course if you just want to go that way, but or you can go in the app and the app also has like seven days peace challenge and a lot other a lot of other resources, educational material that we've recorded over the last ten years. There's also recordings of podcasts, lots of additional resources in there too. But the course itself, the should I say or should I go is just on the relationship recovery dot com and you can get that individually.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, very cool. Thank you. Good information Where can people find you social media and website and give me all of those handles and that info.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Sure. So you can find us on all things social media at the relationship recovery. So whether that's Tik Tok, Facebook, Instagram threads now I'm having a good time with threads. Oh, anybody else? I do like threads. I've had fun. I don't know how many people are actually reading it, but it's a good time. There's just like some it's a good time. I have a go on there. You have to come find us something like they're very the interactions dying. Well, I hope you I hope that you can use.

 

Tiffany Denny:
Have you tried it, Liz? Have you tried it?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I am, but I got bored very quickly, so I haven't been on in a few days.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
But probably why I'm going. Yeah, it's dying. But, you know, maybe I'll. Maybe somebody will get this and, like, laugh and it'll be one of the biggest later, you know? Knows. We'll see what happens. But we're on all of the social media platforms that the relationship recovery. And then you can also see is that the relationship recovery dot com and then that app reclaim you is available in the Google store and an iOS Apple.

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Dr. Liz:
Very good you guys thank you so much for your insights today and that just this is such an important topic to take it like I said earlier from, this is a toxic relationship, but how do we heal from it? And I, I really, really appreciate your guys's insight. So thank you.

 

Kierstyn Franklin:
Thank you for having us. We appreciate yours.

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Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. Thanks again to Tiffany and Kirsten for all of their insights today on healing from relationship trauma. And thank you all for hanging out on relatable relationships, unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.