Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
How would you even define good sex?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Good sex to me is when you forget the moment and you lose track of time. And when you're in it, there's nowhere else in the world that you want to be. And there's nothing that else has to be done. So my favorite position is missionary. And when I'm able to be missionary and with my wife, there's that. It's not sex, it's making love.

 

Dr. Liz:
Missionaries, my favorite position as well because of the same thing that that is that connection. The eye contact, the kissing you know all of that. And I love hearing that response from a male. This is relatable. Relationships unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships unfiltered. Today, I'm hanging out with Jeremiah Campbell, host of the Destined to Be podcast. We chat all about how emotional intimacy has changed his marriage and the impact it's had on their physical intimacy. Jeremiah I feel like we have known each other for a very long time. We've been following each other on Instagram, watching each other's lives, and I'm so grateful to have you here hanging out today.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yeah, I'm making me blush a little. I mean, I appreciate your content. I've always looked up to everything that you've done and looked at you guys for guidance.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you. I appreciate that. And today, I'm hoping to look to you for some guidance, which you do post. A lot of your content is really a mixture of physical and emotional health. And I know that some of our high school sweethearts. Is that how far back it goes?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yeah, it goes. So she was 18 and so we we went to high school together. And so I said, okay, who's with a fake I.D. when I was a kid? And we were really good friends. And so Mallory and I have been together 17 years, and we've been married for 12 in September. And so I was 21, I was 20, and she was 18 when we got together. Cool. Cool fact. Honest to God story on my children. When I was 15 years old, I was in a relationship with one of her friends and I went and the first time I met her, it was the first or second I remember I went to her dad and I said, One day I'm going to marry your daughter. And we weren't dating. And five years later we started dating.

 

Dr. Liz:
my gosh, That's so funny what her dad say when you said that.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Knock it off. I mean, I was Daddy Hospital, the neighborhood. I was.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, knock it off. I like. I fuck. No, you're not.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
That's exactly what it was. And yeah, we can go deep into that, too. So. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's hilarious. So what kind of, what got you into the the topics that you speak about? And today we're going to really do a deep dive into emotional intimacy from the perspective of both genders and how that shows up in relationships. But how did you start diving in to this topic and start really sharing about it on on your platforms?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So really, for me, what it was is I was always Mallory and I've been working with mindset, I've been in masterminds and really focusing on the mind and how, you know, frequencies work and how everything in life in the universe is. It's always been very curious to me. I've always been an old soul, and so Mallory and I have been together, but I was really focused on business and how can I get successes and how can I get external validation. I knew nothing about attachment styles. I knew nothing about how how I'm just I married to finish a cycle of what I did or didn't get as a child, none of that. So all I wanted to do was achieve to prove to myself. And I was like, I just want cool stuff. Two years ago, two years ago, June, about just about two years ago, I had a panic attack and I got sober when I was I was 20 years old. I got sober. I've been six years sober. I was I was I used heroin. And that was the first part of my mental health. And I never found the root of why I actually use or what it was about. And so my relationship with Mallory has always been awesome. I never I never knew there was anything wrong with it until I had the panic attack. And I had been I'd been hanging around really high end coaches, I guess you would say, really, guys that were into it and connected and they were conscious and they were living this amazing and bonded life. And I found myself on a beach in Florida not knowing what was going on with my body. And it was I was listening to your podcast and I was on the beach and I was in a full bodied meltdown, panic attack. And I never had I never allowed myself to experience anything. I never allowed myself to feel. And that was really trauma responses.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So getting into that, I was sitting there and I called my buddy Stefanos, and I said, Steph, I said, I don't know what's going on. This is what's going through my head. This is what's going through my life. And he goes, Buddy, your soul is saying, Fuck you to your ego and you are stuck in the middle and you don't know where to go. So he taught me breathing exercises and he taught me and that was my journey into and it was only two years ago where I started to really uncover who Jeremiah really was.

 

Dr. Liz:
Wow. Wow. And so that's a big deal that you took that panic attack and went that direction with it versus relapsing or versus going and trying to hide it or avoid it working more or I mean, there's just so many approaches that we take as a society to mask that anxiety and to mask that the panic attacks. So it sounds like you were like, no, I'm going to stop it. I'm going to dig deeper.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yes. And I the cross of drinking or drugging for the first time in my life. And what was so profound about that moment was I always had things to push me. And so I felt anxiety and I use that as some people say, well, Jeremiah, you need to relax there, because my whole life I've been a therapy therapist, relax, you need to slow down, you need to be present. And I'm like, you people just say that because they're losers and they don't want to watch some shit in their life. Like, who the fuck wants to slow down? Like, that's the lamest thing in the world. Like slowdowns. Boring and slow down. I'm never going to achieve anything and slow down, slow down. So. So my spiritual advisor for 17 years, he was my sponsor in 12 steps. He passed away just over two weeks before my panic attack.

 

Dr. Liz:
my gosh. That's a huge loss.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Huge loss. Right? And so what it was and now I completely understand it. And that's a lot about this that this that, too. That's right here. I just got right there. The assembled man was he came to me in the spiritual realm. And so to get me into separate me and bring me into consciousness and when I sat there for the first time in my life, I knew why people committed suicide.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's a scary feeling.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
I said, I get it. This feeling doesn't go away and there's no other option. And it's the gift, the desperation that I got to experience. And I didn't have a choice. Like there wasn't a choice to go on in living because going back from that, I got really deep and then Dr. Joe dispensed his work and I went to many of his retreats and I would sit there and I'd sit in meditation for hours. I'd wake up at 4 a.m., meditate for 2 hours. But what I did was it was my, my, my soul trying to get away from exactly who I was because I was afraid to find out who I really was. I spent that time internally fantasizing and I lived in a fantasy world. And then Corbett happened, and this was during a great rate, like halfway through the COVID pandemic. And I was so addicted to pornography. I was so addicted to everything, external sex, anything that would give me instant gratification. And I did everything I could to not feel. And it was just pushing me further and further right to that point.

 

Dr. Liz:
And so then when you had that realization and you started to dig in it, and I'm sure that influenced your relationship greatly, did it get rockier or did it get rocky before you guys started to strengthen? Or how did really that awareness impact your relationship?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Great question. So I got really scared and so I have been Mallory has given me the opportunity to. man, relationships are so fucking hard. They expose all of your deepest triggers and they expose everything to the point where when you're able to get honest and vulnerable. So Mallory and I have this dynamic where I'm the complete opposite of most males that I work with. I completely like. I want to talk about my feelings. I want to ask for directions. I want to I want to, like, come home and I want to hold you and be close to you. So I'm anxious that she's avoiding.

 

Dr. Liz:
So she wants.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Me. And I'm like, I'm thinking, it makes me think of me. I need you. And she's like, I got to get away from you. And then I'm like, Why am I getting rejected? And so when when that happened, I immediately started working with the bonobos. Mallory immediately started working with Christine Hassler And so we, we had those two and I'm like, then they told me I was codependent. And so yeah, it got really rocky. Mallory And I have a commitment to each other that no matter what, we're not going to give up on each other and that's wonderful to say, Yeah, but when you're a person in that state of frame, you can't feel it or believe it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So, yeah, I knew it. I knew it. I mean, we had an amazing life, but the rocky ness was for me, for her. I want to go to you because I have a void your vagina can fix it, except I need fixing. And she was like I. She was at the point where when I had my panic attack for the first time in my life, I was mentally unstable. I mean, I guess you could say I was going to say well before, when I was living out of the trauma responses enough, allowing myself to be. But yeah, it was extremely rocky. I mean, I remember I'll and then soon as I get. So it was like it triggered I don't want to fight or flight. I start panicking. The minute I start panicking, I start making rational decisions. And then I would sit on an hour, an hour like a or hour dress or I just would be and I would sit there and I would say, What are we going to do? Like, what are we going to do? And I need a response now. man, so many nights staying up all night long, crying, just hurting because I couldn't figure out what that was. Now I know it was the inner child trying to come out. I mean, nobody ever cared for him.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. And that anxious attachment, I mean, that's exactly what is going on, is there's so much fear and so much fear of abandonment, so much fear of rejection. And Mallory, on the other end has the same fears. They just manifest differently. Right. And on top of that, she now has this fear of suffocation because you're wanting her to fix you and your needing her to fix you. And she's like, Fuck that, bro. Like I can't fix you. And so then her pushing in that that whole anxious, avoidant dance, I mean, we see that so commonly that often becomes the demise of a relationship. And so when you're talking about you guys have this commitment of like not giving up on each other, I assume there were moments when it was like, yeah, that's probably not the case. Or how how did you stay committed to that? Even through these really dark times.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Our lives are really intermingled and we we love being alone, like with each other. And so I really paramount one of the first things, you know, in my pecking order is God, myself, my wife, and then my kids. And so when I put those things in place first, we we slowly went through it, right? And so there was time. There was never times of like, Hey, we're giving up on this. There was never times of, hey, there's better opportunities and there's something else out there. So I knew and it was the fear that pushed me. And so I knew and I had I was at one point I was in EMDR, Hypnotherapy, I had like four or five therapists. And I was going to I mean, I was doing breathwork three times a day. Anything that I could do, hyperbaric chamber, I mean, you name it. I literally stopped working for for almost a year and just went into healing. I was down in Austin, you know, seven times a year just trying to get anything that I could to not feel the way I felt because I was so afraid. And then I started to just I started to come out of that and I would have glimpses of of clarity and I would really sit there and focus on it. And I would say, okay, the only way that I'm going to lose my wife and my best friend is if I don't, if I don't. And so if I don't heal who who I am. And so my coach would be like, hey, when you get to the point that you don't need her. And I'm like, Well, what do you mean? Why would I ever want to get to that point of not needing somebody? Then why? Why be with her, you know? And then he's like, Here, read this book by David Data and Intimate Communion and and go into this and understanding that process. And a lot of times when I get to that point, it's still extremely hard.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah yeah. And how did you guys find that balance then? I guess so. She was doing her own work at the same time and I assume that was in order like to hold boundaries with you, but also probably to learn how to show up for you in the way that you needed. Because as an avoidant, it's easier for her to isolate. Like, what did that look like as she's doing her journey at the same time? And is she kind of freaking out in the same way?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Scary as shit. Yeah, like super scary because I'm like, okay, so I need to change. But then that's when she automatically was like, Well, if you're going to do all this changing, then I need to change because we need to grow and evolve. So Mallory's always been my number one supporter. Absolutely. No matter what I did, she has undying trust and faith in me of financial, emotional. It's like I have the stats statue here. It says, You keep me safe. And she has one that says You keep me wild. And so we know to help each other. It's almost a dance, right? Yeah, I'm right now, in this present moment, I'm trying to get a grip on my inner child to. To allow myself. I want to be everything for her, and she needs to heal without me. And I'm like, Yeah, but why would you want to heal without me? So. So we she needs to heal and I need to heal. And then we bring that together and I that scares the shit out of me. And so as she was healing, I would just want to check in. And I want to. I want to be. I want to say, Hey, how is this going? And when she's having an emotional response, I have to I have to have the feel in me and say, what do you need from me right now?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Sort of going in to try to save her cause that's what I want to do. I want to go in and be like, What's going on? How can we do? And she'll look at me and she say, You're not my fucking therapist. And that little boy says and starts crying, you know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, he says, But no, don't reject me. Let me be close.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yes. And so and so then she'll and she'll come to me and I'm like, All right, well, is she coming to me? Is this fulfilling a void or a need or is this actually intimate connection? So there's a lot around that for me, especially even so when you get past the sex stuff, when you get past the okay, sex is going to make this better. I think great sex is extremely important in a marriage. I think sex is one of the one of the one that the most, but it's one of the top most. When you're able to intimately connect and be bare naked and be with each other and not have judgments and then take the performance out of it and take just be present with each other. And I love Tantra so much is that just bring the energy into the moment and just let yourself transcend. And I'm an addict, and so I want that every day. And she's like, Bro, we can't have ceremony every night. Like, that's not I'm like, Yeah, but why not? And I'm a generator and she's a projector. And so I'm like, Well, shit, I have all of the energy in the world. Why can't we just do this all the time?

 

Dr. Liz:
And she's and that is really overwhelming for Mallory in a lot of ways.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yeah, so much ways.

 

Dr. Liz:
How would you define emotional intimacy? And so I definitely agree that sex is such an important part of a romantic relationship. And when you talk about good sex being an important part, I guess even before we go into emotional intimacy, how would you even define good sex?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
I love that. So I was I'm a recovering porn addict for sure. I love I had no idea. And I just thought it was normal. Right. And so no one ever taught me about sex. Nobody ever taught me about what the right way to have sex was with the wrong way to have sex was. And so I have a sex therapist now, and she's like, Well, who taught you about these things? And I'm like, I talked to Mallory about it. She gets uncomfortable a lot, so she'll want to just say, Well, that's just that and that's just experience. And I said, Well, that's wonderful. Let's do that. But for me, it's sex is with no pressure. And so as a male that loves sex, I, I'm like a pressure cooker, right? And so I can be good for a certain amount of time. And so there's this emotional, energetic, so good sex to me is when you forget the moment and you lose track of time. And when you're in it, there's nowhere else in the world that you want to be in. There's nothing that has to be done. So there's no next step. There's no you need to do this. I need to come this way. You have to do that. It's just being present and feeling complete when you're done, not complete because you came back complete because it filled your soul and I was able to energetically. So my favorite position is missionary. And when I'm able to be missionary and with my wife, there's that. It's not sex, it's making love. So I guess that would be my answer is it would be making love and it would be creating an energetic aura around each other where there's no judgment of your self or of your partner.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I love that response and I love hearing that response from a male, which is for me, I same and I couldn't have a sexual partner. And I know that now that I could not have a sexual partner who doesn't feel that way because it is such a game changer when it is an emotional connection that happens during sex and missionary is my favorite position as well because of the same thing that that is that connection, the eye contact, the kissing, you know, all of that that takes place. And that definitely takes us into this next conversation of the emotional intimacy, because I think that, you know, casual sex and hookup culture and that is that, you know, do your thing. Whoever is listening to this, do your thing. And that is totally fine. But that is not everybody's thing. And it doesn't have to be everybody's thing. That's not about passing judgment.That's that's not what it's about. But for a lot of people, sex just feels like an act versus real intimacy when it's missing the emotional component of it. So with that being said, how would you define emotional intimacy and how does that come into your relationship?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So when you talked about like I gazing and being able to lose each other in each other's breaths and I'm a very, you know, physical touch is one of my favorite. And so when I and it's all it sucks to say this, but it's all about yourself when it comes to emotional intimacy. And so we Malorie and I have had very traumatic experiences in life together and I what she went for it just six months ago when we would go into the bedroom she would get triggered because she would assume that I needed sex for everything to be okay. And so I had to go through different hormonal changes and I had to change my everything to lower my drive. So I was on testosterone replacement therapy for three and a half years. I just got off of it about a month ago, completely off, and I did. The doctor told me to do. Anyways, he it was, it was now it's bringing that. And so I went, I have a grounded energy when I have a when I'm at peace with Jeremiah and I can go to her and hold space for her for for her allowed to, for her to be anybody or anything. That's when we have the most emotional intimacy there is when I'm not. And so I got to be very I'm very inquisitive. I want questions, I want answers. And and that's not what the feminine needs. The feminine needs just to be how they know that they're in a safe ground. Well, I'm like, well, you're safe. What do you mean? No, no, no, no. It's something that's felt. And when you've been with a partner, you were married, what, 18 years.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yet close to you? Yeah.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
And so. So when you're with somebody in your entangled in that those trauma responses in the way that I showed up home from work and I triggered her and she expected me because that was the way her dad was on edge and her dad saying is perfect, good enough. It's like his company slogan, right? And so that's what she was raised with. And so when I come home, I'm the same individual and she hates to hear that. But when I came home like that. So the emotional intimacy is allowing her to feel any way that she wants without me attaching any judgment on it and I can't fake it. I tried to fake it for so many years, like and she's like, Are you okay? And then the next morning I'd be an asshole or acting like a little kid because I was hurt to get what I wanted. But like, no, really, truly grounding myself and knowing who I am. So then I can just show up and I don't need her to react any way.

 

Dr. Liz:
How did that shift your sex life then, when you started to tap into that emotional intimacy? Because that would and I hear that a lot for for women that they do get triggered around bedtime. They get triggered in certain parts of the house, for instance, even sitting next to each other in certain ways, because that is what they assume is it's going to lead to or their partner is going to pursue. So when you start to really become aware of emotional intimacy and holding space and being safe for Malorie, how did that shift her ability to come to you to show up for you in that way?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
It ebbs and flows. So when even though I can feel it in my body and I can regulate my nervous system really well, the fucking story is woo those stories in my head, right? That you mean you're not? I'm talking about.

 

Dr. Liz:
Narratives. Yeah. my God. Do I know? Yes.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
It runs the show sometimes, and I get to the frame and the point of being. So when I'm there and I have the stories and I have it figured out, and now, because I can be at a regulated state and watch how what's going on in the finance market or what's going on in the world, and I'm not letting that stuff bother me in my head, but in my body I can totally feel it. So when I'm able to be present, when I'm able to be okay, it's we check in with each other three or four times a day. Hey, how's it going? How's your day going? What does it look like? Where you at? Stuff like that is just. Just. Just so we know where each other's presence is. It opens her up and it makes everything better. It makes her a better mom. It makes her a better woman. It makes her a better business leader. It makes her a better lover. Our sex, I mean, and she's she's now open up to ideas that she was never open up to before. She's she's very closed off. She doesn't like that. I love therapy. Like, I can't get her to go to a therapist. I'm obsessed with my therapist. I think she's one of the most wonderful thing in the world. And to be able to open up and open up a container with a therapist, with her, to be able to go in and say, Hey, what's really going on with you? Why are you getting triggered like this? And what can I do to assist your growth in your healing? I'm not going anywhere. And so one of my favorite things to do is when we about we did it two nights ago and our five year old just graduated preschool. And so I was very aware of that. Right. And so I knew she's having a lot of feelings because her little buddy is now going away to kindergarten next year. Yeah, I'm very emotional for her. And so we start having intercourse in. And so she's like, Well, it's been a few days and she's like, so So we start having intercourse. And so Malory is very she's very intuitive with her energies, and she started like moving energy in her body. And so I so I stop that. She goes, no, continue. And so I sat with it, and so I ended up together getting her in, in tears. And it was I mean, the sex stopped. She's like, No, you could finish. And I'm like, okay, this is this is way better than any sex, because she was able to actually pass that emotion where an avoidant doesn't want to allow her to experience that. And so we get done and we debrief it, we talk about it, and I'm like, it was so much I felt in my heart so much more complete than if I would have if we would have had a ten great art sex, sometimes ten out of ten, right? Like that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Great. Our sex sometimes no big deal.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Well, that's top of that. Top five. Top ten. What was that? And I was like, that was the top one experience because I was able to see you and I was able to see your soul and I was able to really, really to tap into who you are as an individual, not who you show up as in the world. And that's really the emotional intimacy. I want to know you inside and I want to know I want to know things about you that nobody that you don't even know about you.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. And that that really is the emotional intimacy and that that deep connection and that closeness is so powerful. And I have found I was just talking about this on another podcast the other day that I have found when I can share with my partner these darker sides of me that the world most certainly does not see Most of my closest friends do not see. And when I can be open and honest about that, which takes a long time to get me there and it's received with safety and as you're saying, spaces held for it, That is a complete game changer in the my willingness to show up like that again next time or my willingness to even show up safe then when he needs it. You know, it's it creates such a deep level of safety and vulnerability that so many people don't realize. And when they come to me and they talk about their intimacy and often referring to their physical intimacy is either strained or it's been hasn't happened in weeks, months, years, that is always where I start, is checking in on that emotional intimacy. Because if you can't hold that space for each other, if you cannot feel like that is a safe, non-judgmental place as you're describing, there is no way you are going to fully connect in physical intimacy. In sexual intimacy, you may have engaged in the act of sex, but that is not what continues to draw a lot of us back. That's not what keeps the spark alive in a relationship.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
No, you're so right. I mean, it is. And so because I've been so critical of myself my whole life and my mom and dad were super critical of me, and I feel like the world is critical on me. One thing is I used to run my relationship, like around my businesses and their checks and balances. I put this in there, so this should be in here and that's how it works. And it's like, I wish it could, but it can't. And some people are like, Well, I had a mentor tell me early on and he goes, If you don't date your wife, somebody else will. So make that a super priority of what your what it looks like in your life. So I started to get curious, but it took it takes a long time. I'm still actively working on it to where I have to watch my emotional because I have patterns and habits and and so I want to be super critical. So she'll be she'll pick up cues around me when I'm on the phone with one of my team members or something's going on with a client. And if she's picking up me, being being critical on somebody, I'll watch her start to back off. So I need to I need to exercise the ability to be super curious and then not place any judgment. And it's the funniest thing. She'll be standing across the kitchen. I'll look at her and I just have like these puppy eyes and I'm just like, my God, I'm so blessed to be in so infatuated love with you after all of these years. By love is ten times, 100 times what it was when we got married. And I'm looking at her and she's like, What? What I do something with is what's wrong with me? And I'm like, I'm just doing my thing. So. So once I started verbalizing that, like, I'm just really admiring the way that you're walking in the way that you're showing up in life. And then automatically she'll, she'll want to come back with an American or to sit with it like that's, that's it. And I got to say it in a way, tonality is extremely important. I have to say it in a way where it's like, No, I genuinely and I'll tell her I don't need anything. I just wanted to tell you that I'm not looking for anything. I'm not telling you this compliment because I want a blowjob later. I'm not telling you this, but I'm just telling this because I think you need to hear it. And that's from going from what we used to be, to be it to being what that is. I mean, it takes a long time. And in her, her feminine and feminine energy is like nudges me and not just me and nudges me. And she's testing, it's testing, it's testing. And it's like, you know, there's still things that the feminine does that they don't know that they necessarily do. And you know, a lot of people's work go into the testing, right. And doing well. Yeah. He's wanting to know where how far she can go and still be safe.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
And that little boy can always hold that. And so then it's up to me to come back and say, Hey, you know what? This is a safe place, but I'm a I'm a little off right now. And so I just want you to be aware of it. And that takes hyper hyper vigilance and and self awareness of who I am and where I'm at.

 

Dr. Liz:
How can you hold space for testing and still and set a boundary with it, though? And so when I'm asking that because yes, I may be a tester myself because of my upbringing with a lack of safety and so and my current partner, he does a really good job of holding. He holds a lot of space. He's a very patient man. But I do I test and I push and I push and I push. And he a lot of times he's really good at at setting a boundary. And he's like, okay, I'm here for you. I see you also. You can't talk to me that way. What does it look like on your end when you because I think for a lot of men who are trying to be safe, like they will either just take it, take it, take it, and so then they lose their shit or they won't take it at all because they're you know, whatever whatever role modeling for masculinity that they grew up with, like. Woman, you're not going to talk to me that way, you know? So that's often on these various ends of the spectrum. So what would that look like to hold space and stay safe while still holding a boundary for the little boy inside of you? That is like, yeah. And also, you need to be kind and gentle with me because I am scared too.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yeah, that's a great question. And yeah, so what it used to be like is when it comes to emotional intelligence, and that was one of my first coaches that I hired about five years ago. I was an emotional intelligence coach because I just lose my shit like I'm a lot of energy, I'm big energy, and I my trauma response is to not procrastinate. I have to get done now, now, now. Everything's got to be done now. There's no waiting. Let's go in. When I used to and I still do sometimes where it comes out or I'll just. I just lose my shit and I'll yell or I'll raise my voice. A real man doesn't needle. And so there's a thing called the cowboy code is the international cowboy code. And one of the rules is firm but fair. And so I, I don't have to raise my voice to elevate it. Mallory is amazing at honest to God, at not disrespecting me. And so especially around people, around anybody. So she's an angel when it comes to not disrespecting me. And so we when it comes to like making reservations and doing all that stuff, I know then, you know, it's a big thing like, Hey, handle this, let her flow only does that. And so because she's got a very strict diet, whatever, bloating women, whatever stomach goes on and so on and so and so when she'll try to overstep her boundaries and I say, hey, I put my hand on her and I say, I got this. She goes, okay, thank you. And that's it. And so when it comes to her wanting to respond and and say, Well, I need it this way or I need this way, and I'll say, Hey, you want this? You want to know the options or do you want me to make the decision for you? And then and then I'll just step in. And so when it comes to like our daily lives of I come home after work, I come home, I'm a never home, 4 to 6, anything outside of there, I say, Hey, we have plans when it comes to the house, when it comes to the cars, when it comes to our investments, when it comes to any of those all those areas that she worries nothing about. And so we know our roles in our relationship extremely well. And then if she's having a really bad day or something's off, I can easily. And that's when I say, okay, Jeremiah, the little boy is here, or Jeremiah, the man's here, and I'll look at her and I'll say, You are a little off. What's going on? Would you like to go spend 5 minutes and we'll go lay down in the 5 minutes? And she just she doesn't even the first 16 years of our relationship, What can I do for you? That person's done. This doesn't make sense. I'm going to fix it for you, Mr. Fix it, which then enables it, which then, you know, repeats the story in her head that she can't fix herself, that she needs somebody else to fix it, which doesn't give her empower her to make the better to show up how she wants to, because I'm coming to her dad's coming to see her.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
And so it's being there and saying, Hey, I can see that something's a little off right now. And then what I like to do is bring humor into it and I laugh and you just take her butt out at me and I'll smack her butt. And we try to bring in we try to lighten the mood, because what it is, is we need a pattern. Interrupt. We're caught in a story or a pattern. It's something's got to be broken. And so something What can we do? Can we get when we go jump on the trampoline together or what? We'll take a walk around the block. Something to bring into it. The one the one other thing about that is the one of the biggest tests that I get is show sent me some some some wonderful sex gifs, sex dot gif or whatever that is. They're fantastic If anybody listening to it's sex dot com got gif or something like that and there's way cool stuff and she'll set it to me or like and then she'll say something like Hey, my stomach hurts or something like that. And that's when I have to go fucking deep and I have to pull it out. And that's okay. It's not no forever, little boy. It's a no right now. And you're not going to die. Yeah. And then I have to be okay with that when I show up. That way, we'll lay there in bed for 20, 30 minutes I've ever had in my life. And I'm like, fuck, did that happen? Like, I was actually okay to go to sleep? Whoa.

 

Dr. Liz:
How can she hold space for you to be safe then? So on the flip side of that, you know, and you're so aware of your triggers and obviously I've done so much work around that when you do feel triggered or you are feeling tested, how can she be safe? How can I get this is unique for each individual, but for you specifically and you describing a lot of these anxious tendencies, what can Mallory do that holds space for you?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
She she gets she when I'm in like a hyper, like I got to take off and I'm getting yelling at the kids and she can just tell them I hot mess or something's going wrong that that's out of my control. She comes up, puts her hand on my heart, and then she'll just. Just sit there with me. She will. We did this thing when I was when I was going through my panic attack where we go like this, no matter where we are out there or where I was, I would look at her. I would start to like, panic and get scared for the first time. And we would do one of these and we just fist bump our chest twice like, I got you. I see you. I'm aware of what's going on. She'd hold a lot of safety like that. She would do it. She does a really good job to me, said, What do you need from me? And I'm like, I just need you to do this. And so one of the hardest parts is, is when I'm triggered, I, I do to make people accept me. And she'll say, What can I do for you? And for the first I, then it's hard for me to go in and tell her what I actually need.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because that's a pretty common thing. I was just working with the client this week and said a very similar thing. How, how? And I assume you will share with us here, but how did you start before you even started expressing it? How did you start to identify what the need was? Because that's one of the most common questions that I get, especially, well, I would say, from all genders, but a lot of times with men because they are doers, they are fixers and so often not tapped into their needs. How did you start to really figure out? So outside of sex, outside of the financial success and stability, the emotional component of it, how did you figure that out?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So I don't know if I'll ever fully figure it out, but I have a I have a I'm an infant in that stage. And for me, it it's hard because it's understanding. It's about what I actually need and I need to prioritize myself in. So when I'm in that moment, what do I actually need in this moment? And so I have to separate. And that's where the codependency comes out, where I have to separate from it. And I have to say what I know, what I know, what would fix it. Let's go have sex and I'll forget about it. No, no going out and then I'll it'll be it'll be a change. But I have to sit with me and I have to prioritize my needs. And I say, What do I actually need? Like, right in this moment? Do I need a cold glass of water? Do I need do I need to go run around the block? Do I need to go scream in a pillow or do I just need to go sit with myself and sit with that feeling? I get it in my top right? AB And that's where it that's where he rests and that's where he was hurt the most. And so I sit with that need. I have to it's a very it's a, it's a very long process of understanding. It doesn't have to be for me it was of understanding that she what she does has nothing to do with me. What she is has nothing to do with me. And if she wasn't ever in my life anymore, that I would still be okay. And it fucking hurts to the bone to even verbalize it and say that. But that's the truth. And so when I'm going on these journeys to figure out my truth and that's what all this is, I mean, I think life is an illusion anyways. And where does conscious, you know, thinking about our thoughts and, and allowing these emotional triggers and all this stuff. So I have to sit with me and really tune in and everything else out. And as a doer and as a, as an anxious, that's the scariest place for me to be. And most of the time what it is, is I just need to be quiet and I need to be silent and I need to just be just forget about everything and start to feel I never felt my entire life. I did at one point and then trauma of that happened. And as I say with my clients, I say, What does it feel like to feel and not think about the feeling, but just to feel the sensation of the sun or the wind or that. And then I get a wholeness. And that's when the thoughts come through that that are actually going to heal me. I think thoughts are the intuition from from source energy, God, whatever you want to call it. And then the thinking is the ego coming in to try to sabotage you of why those things can take place. So when I can sit with it and be with just the thought alone with thought is only good. Thought is only loving and caring, then I don't need the external validation.

 

Dr. Liz:
So in those moments, are you needing her then to allow you the space to do that? Are you needing her to suggest that you go take that space for yourself? Like in a partnership? I hear very much that you're saying you need to take care of it and you need to handle it. And also you have this partner who obviously loves you very much and wants to show up and keep you safe and support you. What is her role become in that?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
The heart is the other, right? Because I don't want to go away. I don't want to leave your side because I need you and I want you and I desire you and I want you to desire me. But you got to do it. And this, this and this. And that's when I know a little boy is triggered. And so for for her in that moment is I need 5 minutes. I need to walk away. I need to go do something. I needed to step away from the moment. And a lot of times it's the thinking and I have to the thinking, thinking, it'll just come. And then it creates the stories and then it creates the narratives and then it creates the suggestions and then it creates all of the illusion to keep me separate from who I am and when I have me. So what she will do personally is whatever I request and she'll say, Do you need space? What do you need to do? And and then. And then when I go away, so much harder. Because then I'm like, Why aren't you chasing me like I'm doing? And so then and then I have to just literally take the time meditating, be present with me, and then not worry about what's going on with her.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, that's the hardest part. About one of the hardest parts, about the attachment styles, right. Is because especially I my insecure when I get triggered shows up as disorganized. And so it's the push and the pull. Come here. No, go away. And so I can relate to what you just said that, you know, I'll tell my partner I need space, but then when he actually gives me space, I'm like, What the fuck is wrong with you that you're giving these space attention to me? And he's like, What do you want? And so I get that that, that disorganized piece which I hear that anxiety is, is your top one. But I wonder on your pie chart where disorganized might pop up that there there is the push and pull for you because you are so used to doing things on your own. You're so used to being a fixer and a solver. And I wonder, like, does that ever pop up for you in terms of not necessarily being fully avoidant, but maybe even the isolation piece? Or that as you're saying, you start to become a solver, which then, you know, it takes you out of connection when you do that.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yes, I, I go right into so I do really good at being overwhelmed and like that's my jam Like I love 57 projects, running six businesses. I love chaos.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Right there with yeah it's really serving us, isn't it.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
It did, it did for a really, really long time. And we set our yard and we've used our yard more in the last three weeks. We live in Michigan than we ever have. And I look at it and I said, I said, this is a pretty cool fucking trauma response, isn't it? And we laugh because it was, and I can no longer do that. And so now I'm seeing the benefits of it. And so for me, the benefits of it are I'm now being able to adult myself. I'm able to repair it, my little boy, and really see what's going on. And the truth is, is I know that's always there. And so we were with some therapist down in Texas and we were sitting with them and you go and he looked at me and he goes, I'm just like you. And as he was about six years old, and he goes and he goes, that that that steam engine, that bulldog will always be there, but it's okay to let go of him. And he's sitting right over there and I'll always be there if you ever need him. But he's no longer serving you.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's powerful.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
What did you do with that?

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
I sat. I sat with it and I'm like. And I watch him come up. But lowering myself, I was. I've been taking pre-workout for as long as I can remember. And so I stopped that, too, and I started limiting my caffeine intake. And I started really just allowing myself to be present and understanding that boring, as slow as in boring. Slow is actually peaceful and there's a different calmness that comes from it. So when I get triggered and I had the best of the best people in the world tell me, said Jeremiah, when somebody asks you to slow down, what what makes you uncomfortable going this fast? And I had the best rebuttals of like, what? What do I tell these people what I do? And I would just think about it and I would I would create manifest these to keep me at that state. And I was like, No, you're just not as good as me because you can't operate at my capacity. And I truly, to the core, believe that. And then it served me for a really long time. And so my good became the enemy, my great. And I'm like, what could I really do in life if I sat down and understood how Jeremiah operates And what actually makes him feel good? I know what makes me. I'm really good at chasing what's but filling my needs to feel content. 3536 years old. I still don't know how to do that.

 

Dr. Liz:
It's a it's a different ballgame because that need is sometimes the exact opposite of the want. The need is sometimes or oftentimes what is good for us, but not is what not what is desired by us. And so that can be really hard to take care of ourselves. And when we talk about self-care, it often goes to the once. But self-care is also the needs and that is the healing and that is the nourishing our bodies and moving our bodies and learning to regulate our emotions and doing the opposite of our historical trauma responses and all of those things we need because that is what's going to take us to our higher self. That's what's going to take us to our more connected self and to be able to connect with others, but to really get ourselves to do that is quite the feat and often doesn't happen. I was talking to somebody about that, that it's like, you know, if more people were just educated, the more people educated on these type of things, then more people could make better choices. And while I do believe that to a large extent, I fully believe that because I don't believe that knowledge is power, I believe the application of that knowledge is where we become empowered. And we as a society, we consume this content all of the time. We are reading, we're podcasting, we're talking, we're exploring, but how many of us are applying? And that is difference. That is when our lives start to really change, is when we pursue the need versus the want.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Most people can tell you what their needs are.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. I agree, because that's a hard thing to do to tap into when it's never been met. Part of your relational programing. And then also when you know whether you're in a fast paced society, whether you have a high demand job, everyone is stressed out. Nobody stops to check in on that.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Especially in committed relationships, monogamous, monogamous relationship ups, when you're with your partner and their needs don't include you.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
In my and you need to go heal on your own. So what then? You can be better for me, I'm like, bullshit. Like bullshit. And so that then that and then it's understanding. So the more I focus on my needs, the better she's able to focus on her needs and the better we're able to be as humans, actually as a couple and as as a evolving humans in this 3D realm.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I absolutely agree. What be maybe one or two pieces of takeaway that you would give to people listening to start today if they're like, okay, I want to start to foster my emotional intimacy with my partner I want to start showing up different for them. What are a couple of things they could just even start this evening.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
I would make a list of your desires and your needs and really focus in on what your desires are and try to get a differentiation between the two of them and really start trying to pour into your needs. And when it comes to being with your partner, be on the same page. A lot of my stuff that we teach on is core values and understanding, like, where are you going in a direction? Because if you're rowing in the opposite direction, if you guys can't get back on track in the same way, take that to follow through. So I Mallory's core values to the team and she knows my core values. Then we have our family core values. And so when I go to make decisions as a man leading the household, that I have to know that what's important to her, it has to also be important to me.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. And there's a lot of research on that that values are way more important than having similar interests or similar hobbies. Really, the values and the alignment in compatibility and worldviews, as is a really important thing.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
I don't know that you can, but I don't know how people do it without it because, I mean, you've got to be able. Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Well, Jeremiah, where can people find you? Where can they learn more about you and Mallory? And I know Mallory has a pretty active presence online as well. Where can you guys found.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
So I'm Jeremiah underscore Campbell and she's at Mallory Campbell.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay very good and websites or anything or is it mostly.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Destined to be podcast.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay destined to be podcast. Well Jeremiah, I appreciate your time and your insights and your vulnerability. Thank you so much for everything you've shared. I genuinely appreciate you being here.

 

Jeremiah Campbell:
Thank you so much.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thanks, Jeremiah, for providing such helpful tips and thank you all for hanging out on relatable relationships. Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.