Relatable podcast 

Kylie Lately:
I saw him on a dating app and I thought he looked really small and I didn't. Well, I'm just being honest.

 

Dr. Liz:
I'm sure I love it.

 

Kylie Lately:
Then the next day or so, I opened Instagram and I was watching someone's stories and they were at this MMA fighting event and they had tagged the person fighting and it was him. And I was like, I just saw this man over on Tinder.

 

Dr. Liz:
I've seen you guys on Instagram. He doesn't seem so little.

 

Kylie Lately:
No, he's he's six two and built like a like a shin. It's like he's not this well at all. It's just the photo he had. It's like he's dating, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
I can relate to that. I'm five nine, and I am far from a little woman, so I that is something that I am constantly aware of.

This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable relationships unfiltered. Today, I'm hanging out with Kylie Lately, the hosts of the I Am podcast. We chat all about finding love after divorce, including each of our own ups and downs in this journey. Ello, Kylie, thank you so much for coming to hang out with me today.

 

Kylie Lately:
I will hang out with you anytime. I loved our last chat.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you. I as well. I think that in your content and I love what you post with you and your partner, I just love what you're putting out there. So I'm honored to have you here today.

 

Kylie Lately:
Thank you.

 

Dr. Liz:
So that is part of what we are talking about today, is finding love after divorce. And I know that you are in your I guess, is this the first relationship that you had after divorce or kind of walk us through that?

 

Kylie Lately:
So I went through a divorce in 2019. I've got twin boys. So that's another element, I guess, to the finding love conversation as well in terms of blending a family and striking that balance and co-parenting all all of that stuff that comes along with it, that I went through a divorce in 2019, about a year and a half later. I did find myself in a relationship, and it was I was with this person for about a year and it was kind of almost like a starter relationship in a way. Elizabeth because it had been over a decade since I dated and I came out of my marriage, and there's this whole new world with dating apps and everything is completely different to how it was in my early twenties. And so I did meet someone through a dating app and we had a relationship for about a year and a half, and it was a great relationship, but it was very much contained. You know, I would be with this person when I didn't have the kids. He didn't meet the boys until we've known each other for like seven months. And it was very much like, I'm a girlfriend when the kids are at their dad's. And very separate from that. Yeah, and that has its own issues. But that relationship ended and then a year on from that, I met my now partner. We're engaged. I never call in and say that word. It doesn't come out naturally. I always say boyfriend. And he's like, don't say that. Yeah. So I guess kind of the second relationship, proper relationship out of my marriage.

 

Dr. Liz:
And what was that like for you when you started and you know, very similar in terms of I was married for 17 years and have been divorced for about three and a half, so also hadn't dated for a very long time, started using the dating apps and what a world that is as you're describing. So yeah, what was that like for you to kind of start exploring and and even so you like come out of this relationship and so you kind of know what you liked and what you didn't like and how did that even influence who you started to date?

 

Kylie Lately:
I came out of my marriage very confused, confused in terms of my identity, what it is that I wanted, why I had ended up feeling the way that I felt at the end of that relationship. I think for me personally, as a little girl, I was really conditioned and socialized to grow up, find a good man, be compliant, be quiet, be amenable, all of those things. And so I found myself in a marriage where I was really playing that role. Be quiet, be good, be you know, be the supporting character, I guess, in a way. And so when that relationship ended, I found myself really, really lost. I didn't know who I was just as an individual because I stayed. I had created so much of my identity around being a good wife and being a good mum. And so I found myself feeling like neither, you know, I'd gone through this marriage. Separation in my heart was hurting for the family breakdown, and I was really hard on myself for what that could do to my kids and all of that stuff.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Kylie Lately:
So I was really in kind of this no man's land. And then eventually when I felt ready to get my toes into the world of dating, that was even more of a no man's land to me, because prior to being married, you would go out and you would meet people in the wild, you know, you'd meet people at a bar on a night out with your girlfriends. And so this at the time, 2019, 2020 lens of realizing, my gosh, everyone meets everyone on a dating app and the option to endless and you do just become an option. You know you realize that you're going on dates with people that have endless options tucked away in their phone, in their pocket. And yeah, it was just a whole, whole new world for me. I had to really learn to develop a thicker skin and get my head around the app.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And I think that there is just such a disconnect with the apps, right? And you're absolutely correct that that is what everyone for the most part uses. And so it's really hard otherwise and especially we're such a busy culture, we're such just a busy society like we are. Everything is fast pace, everything is what we have on our to do list and what there to do next and all of those things. And so and you're you're in another country, correct?

 

Kylie Lately:
Yes. And you're in Australia.

 

Dr. Liz:
And you still probably you guys have probably have a similar lifestyle in that way. Yeah. And so that really impedes upon our ability to, as you're saying, especially as a mother, as a to go hang out at the bars, to go have a night out. There's not a whole lot of options.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah, it's a really different thing. And perhaps it was maybe even more intense at that moment in time, Elizabeth because for us, we were going into COVID lockdowns and so everyone was really relying on apps as a form of connection validation, I guess certainly communication. And perhaps that first relationship that I kind of found myself in was maybe more intensified because of that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Did that person who you ended up in or the, the one in the middle, was he similar or very different than your ex spouse.

 

Kylie Lately:
I like this question. I realized after that relationship I had a pattern of being attracted and choosing emotionally unavailable men. So they presented very differently in terms of my ex-husband is very organized and very much an adult. And then the person that I found myself in a relationship with and I think so highly of him still, he was a real nomad, like owned nothing, you know, had no furniture, like a real free spirit, just totally different. But this he had this thing where he was just so emotionally unavailable and so unwilling to love someone or to be loved. And that's definitely been a common pattern that I've noticed for me. And of course, with a lot of therapy and a lot of self-worth, flexion and discomfort, at times it's become apparent to me that that was a really comfortable dynamic for me to seek out because that's how my dad is. My dad's very much black and white. There's no emotional area, there's no gray area in between. And so that felt really comfortable for me.

 

Dr. Liz:
I totally hear what you're saying and I have a very similar upbringing in that way and and the awareness that I tend to also choose avoidant men, which are very similar to my father. And so same thing that I've had to do a lot of work and a lot of healing and a lot of the work that I do with my clients even helps me to continue my work in that way of the awareness around how these experiences really influence what is not necessarily comfortable but familiar. And so it's that it's the uncomfortable comfort zone, that it's what we know. So that's what we continue to seek out in spite of also knowing it's really unfulfilling and not not meeting our needs. You know, is just not what what we're needing.

 

Kylie Lately:
I really appreciate that distinction that you just made. Then it's not comfortable because I was using the language you're saying that was comfortable for me and it wasn't, but it was familiar. And I guess what part of me associated with being loved.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right, that then that was the lens that that's how you were programed to believe that people who love you will show up in that way. How did that switch then? So your partner, who you are or your fiancee, we will humor him with that. How how did you meet him? And had you done healing to be able to be available to somebody who was different?

 

Kylie Lately:
Yes. So after that sort of relationship, post marriage breakdown, I really fell apart. And I think in a way I didn't deal with a lot of my divorce stuff and my marriage breakdown. I was able to kind of escape a little bit into this relationship. And so when that one ended, I had such a huge reaction to that relationship ending that was so disproportionate to what that actual relationship was and that was just because I hadn't dealt with a lot of the pain that was inside from my marriage breakdown. And so I realized I had to do a lot of work on myself. And I took the initiative to book therapy every single week, make that a priority. I really wanted to understand why I am the way I am, and I really had to learn a lot of self-compassion. That was the big one for me.

 

Dr. Liz:
And how did that kind of influence your healing? And I love that you say that because that is something that so many of us struggle with, and especially when raised by emotionally unavailable caretakers. How did that really influence how you were able to shift, how you showed up in relationships?

 

Kylie Lately:
I think I was holding on to a lot of shame. Being a single mom, having a failed marriage, all of those things were really weighing heavily on my heart and on my mind, and I was really beating myself up, you know, internally. What's wrong with me? Will anyone love me? All of those sorts of things, lots of fear and learning to access self-compassion was transformative for me because when you stop beating yourself up with a stick every day, there's there's room for more, there's room for hope, there's room for curiosity, there's room for understanding and forgiving. And when you have that room and when you are extending that forgiveness to yourself and that love to yourself, it then creates more space to grow in the areas that are healthier and happier, if that makes sense.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. That's a big part of inner child work, is that when we really reflect on what did that child need. So for you and I, when we talk about being raised by emotionally unavailable parents and so we have these needs, we have these emotional needs that every human has, and as a child, we have to figure out how to get them met in some way or survive not getting them met. And so we will develop whatever traits we have to do to survive that. But then going we take those traits with us into adulthood. And a big part of that is shame based. And I agree that that is a really common thing that a lot of as face. And so when we do inner child work and we even an activity of sitting and visualizing maybe yourself as five year old, six year old, seven year old and being in a state of need, and I talk with my clients about that, that when that child is maybe crying or they're scared or they're feeling embarrassed or ashamed, they're never going to feel better by inflicting more shame. So if we do a whole visualization around, a little kid is sitting there crying and we go up and start yelling at them or shaming them, does the child stop crying? Do does the child feel better or does the child feel more disregulated? Of course they feel more disregulated. And so what does that child actually need? And it's exactly what you're describing, that they need nurture and they need compassion and they need to be be held and have their forehead kissed and told that they're going to be okay. And when we didn't get that, maybe as a child or maybe as frequently as we would have liked, it can be really hard to know how to receive that as an adult.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah, I think there are so many women in particular Elizabeth, walking around who do not practice self-compassion because we hold ourselves to these impossibly high standards and we want to present as perfect to society. And we've become really, really hard on ourselves. And so self-compassion was a huge one that my therapist really helped me to access and identifying past patterns, you know? Yes. Why? Why was I feeling those familiar feelings that emotionally unavailable men have? Is I also emotionally unavailable myself? And I think even there's a link there, right, between learning to be more self compassionate and being emotionally available to myself as well. Right. So I think that was helpful for me too. And also just getting clear on what is it that I actually want and how am I complicit that in creating circumstances that I say I don't want. So if I really want someone to love me and see me as I truly am, then I've got to stop being performative in relationships and playing a role that I think they want me to play. And I have to use my voice and I have to speak up and I have to own the things that make me feel resentful and I have to get comfortable with all of that stuff that's below the surface so that I actually can feel sane.

 

Dr. Liz:
And all beautiful and all. So much easier said than done, that's all Just hard and shit to do. All of that.

 

Kylie Lately:
So hard.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And how did you meet your fiancee?

 

Kylie Lately:
Well, I saw him on a dating app, and I'll admit it because it's honest, even though it makes me sound a bit shallow. I saw him on a dating app, and I thought he looked really small. I thought he's an attractive man, but he looks teeny tiny, short and small, and I didn't. So I'm just being honest, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. I love it.

 

Kylie Lately:
This is as if we're sitting down at a bar having a drink, right? Absolutely. So I was like, he has a really attractive face, but he looks very little. So no. And I slept past. Then the next day or so, I opened Instagram and I was watching someone's stories and they were at this MMA fighting event and they had tagged the person fighting. And you know how you just go down a rabbit hole Sometimes I don't even know why. Actually, it's because I just moved house. I didn't have a TV set up or anything, and I was just going down all these rabbit holes. And so I clicked on his profile and it was him. And I was like, I just saw this man over on Tinder. And I thought, he's actually quiet. There's something like, There's something about him. He's definitely not my usual type. Firstly, he's covered in tattoos. Like just I don't think that you would think to pair us together if you were just picking random people. But anyway, and so I clicked follow on his profile, had a bit of a stalk and I thought, he's really attractive and I'll just follow him and leave at bay. And then within maybe an hour, an hour and a half, he'd sent me a message via Instagram saying, Hey, thanks, Thanks. The following or something like that. Have we met? Do we know each other? And then he asked me for coffee and that was it.

 

Dr. Liz:
okay. So that's why.

 

Kylie Lately:
I say that was it. But it's never that. Was it like we when he died, I was still not sure. It took a while. Like he always said, that took me months and months to actually admit that I liked him and things like that.

 

Dr. Liz:
But a very modern love story, right? Because whether it's through Instagram or a dating app, I mean, it's very and so you have the combination of both. You had the double whammy there. So I always say that that I think Instagram is more effective for that because that and your story actually, and I'll have to now use your story to describe when I'm trying to explain this to people because the dating app is so limited. And so you see him and your biggest takeaway is that he's little. And when I was laughing earlier, it's because I can relate to that. I'm five nine and I am far from a little woman, so I am that is something that I am constantly aware of. And so but when you can go to Instagram and now you see personality and you see what he's doing, you see him interacting in other. So even if that were true, which I've seen you guys on Instagram, he doesn't seem so little.

 

Kylie Lately:
No, he's he's six two and built like a like a ship. It's like he's like this little doll. And since the photo he had, it's like his dating, right? He was super ripped because of his five. So I thought he was built like a jockey because he was so rich. But like six two and he's six.

 

Dr. Liz:
I've seen him on there. He's not so little. But regardless, you were able to then through Instagram, get this other perspective and see him through a different lens, which I mean, I just think it's more effective. I think that's one of the biggest pitfalls of dating apps, is that it's just such a limited we are picking and choosing based on such limited information.

 

Kylie Lately:
And we're not always the best at being our own PR team, you know? So on a dating app, sometimes, you know, we're just not the best at putting our best foot forward. And I think that's true, particularly for a lot of men. You know, they're uploading the photo, holding the fish and so then we just see this kind of like basic profile and we don't get the other facets of this person. And so, yeah, jumping across to Instagram, I guess there was kind of that social proof too of going, I, we have acquaintances, you know, So that made him feel safer as well.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? Right. Which is, yeah, there's a lot of validity to that also because you don't Yeah. You don't know who you're talking to on the apps. What about him. Set him apart. What made him different from even an emotionally available standpoint?

 

Kylie Lately:
There were there was no game playing from the beginning with him. He was just very, very vulnerable. And it caught me off guard. Like it caught me off guard to the point where I thought, Is that the game? Like, is this the game he's playing? Does he know what to say so well and present is vulnerable because to look at again, I was very wary. I'm like attractive man covered in tattoos, lives on the Gold Coast. I know you're over in America, but like the Gold Coast can be quite, I don't know, cheesy, I guess it's surface level and so it took me a while to sort of realize that he in vulnerability was very earnest. And he is he's a very, very earnest person. He always says what he feels. And I guess, you know, he'd been through a divorce himself as well. So there's that element of having loved and having lost. And I think sometimes that really can like deepen a connection after that, because when you go through that love and that loss of it, you realize how precious, precious it is and how easily it can slip through your fingers. And also, I think you realize that you do have to take accountability for the way that you show up more in relationship. And so with Brendon from the get go, he was just very much all in hard on his slave. Very, very honest, very, very direct and also kind of unmovable. So even when I was saying to him, I'm really scared, I'm not sure how I'm going to do this, I have two kids that he was very calm and very much like, we'll figure it out together, you know? And I just yeah, he just felt like a exhale compared to other people I'd been involved with.

 

Dr. Liz:
Had he done therapy and done his own personal work as well.

 

Kylie Lately:
He has a therapist that he speaks with, which I find so attractive. I think it's such a great quality in someone. So he has a therapist. He definitely spent like a good year and a half as well, just doing stuff for him, you know, like I was over there going to my therapy and doing stuff for me and focusing on friendships and whatnot, and he was really throwing himself into support and on his own healing journey, I guess.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right, Right. So he had put in some of those efforts after his divorce, though, to be able to show up differently. And yeah, was that so when you're talking about kind of not being so certain right away, do you think part of that was because he was so different, so there was hesitation for you in accepting that?

 

Kylie Lately:
Yes. Absolutely. He did not feel familiar.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Kylie Lately:
Ed So I really had to keep reminding myself it's a good thing that this doesn't feel familiar. Kylie Even though every love story ever tells you like, it will feel like you have all of these warm feelings and I'll be instantaneous. For me, it was much more like, Look at the consistency that this man is bringing. His words match his actions. And that was a big one for me because I think it's very easy to get spirally and try and make meaning out of people's actions and excuse things and explain things. But it was just a very clear connection. His words match his actions. I feel very safe with him. And yeah, it just felt very stable from the beginning.

 

Dr. Liz:
Which is so important when coming finding love after your divorce in terms of if you haven't. So if your marriage was obviously really healthy and you were already in a secure attachment and you guys just decided together didn't work out great, but that's often not how divorces go. And so I think for a lot of people it is trying to figure out what went wrong. What attracted me to this dynamic to begin with, how did I show up in this relationship that was also just as dysfunctional and then allowing yourself to look for that different partner when you start when you're ready to be in a relationship again. That and we're so just drawn to our type, whatever that that type is. And so for you to be willing and able and to have done the work to say it's good, it's a good thing that he's different, I mean, that is a huge step towards that secure attachment, towards that healthy relational functioning, because you didn't just allow yourself to go back.

 

Kylie Lately:
Absolutely. And I also didn't get involved with Brendon thinking, I'm going to marry this man, you know, or this is going to be some great love, right? Like when he invited me to go for a cup of coffee, I kind of like, like I kind of have a no coffee date. Generally rule as a date. I don't think that day dates are fun. I always have felt like they end up feeling a bit like a job interview. I'd much rather typically go for a first date, meet someone, have a drink or two, and kind of have that night time atmosphere. And so when he said to me, Can I take you for a coffee? I was like, I don't really want to, but I guess I'll go for the story, you know, why not? I've got that little two hour gap before school pick up. No, no, no harm will be done. And I really approached this whole getting to know Brendon as just I like you show me more. You know, there was never any pressure of, my gosh, I've met this person and he takes all of the boxes. I just wanted to slowly uncover what he was about and get to know him more.

 

Dr. Liz:
Which is often not how relationships are approached and can be such a valuable thing to really slow down, take your time and allow an understanding of that person. What was it like when you did end up? Does he have kids as well?

 

Kylie Lately:
No.

 

Dr. Liz:
So what was that like when you did start blending family?

 

Kylie Lately:
Well, I the only other experience I had had was when I was with the person before him. And I didn't let the boys meet him until we'd been together for seven months or so. Like, I was very protective of my boys, very mindful of bringing any characters into their life that might not be, you know, around for a long time. And I was really wary to introduce Brendan to the boys. But early on he said to me, like, I'm very sure about you, when you're ready, I'll just come and meet them. I'll meet them as a friend. I will do it in a low pressure environment. And so we did that. You know, he he met the boys. It was like for an hour. And, you know, it was so cute. Brendan was like, making sure he sat, like, two meters away from me and, like, just giving me lots of space as well because he didn't want to make the boys uncomfortable. And so he really came into getting to know the kids with a curiosity about each of the boys and just wanted to build a friendship with them. There was never any pressure from Brendan at all towards the boys to to be a paternal figure. Yeah, yeah. Fast forward a year and a half and there definitely is a paternal relationship there with them and they're obsessed with him. But early on it was very much like this is a friend, small doses and yeah, just building up that familiarity.

 

Dr. Liz:
What's that like for your ex. For for him to be, for Brendan to be in there in the twins lives and.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah, I certainly won't speak on behalf of my ex-husband but he's been in a relationship with someone that also has twins and another child. So I it's not an unfamiliar concept to him that, you know, we're both each going to move on. And yeah, I can't speak to exactly how he feels about that dynamic. I'm sure it's hard at times because the boys adore Brendan and I think that can be challenging at times as well. But yeah, I can't speak to his experience of it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. Yeah. And I just met more like what the dynamic is like. But that would make sense that if he is also in a relationship with somebody as well, just in general, a relationship with somebody, but then also that she has kids, then it probably is a lot easier to accept than the partner that maybe is not in a relationship and is watching you form another family and this other man coming into their lives. So that probably makes it a lot easier.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yes. And he's been in that relationship before, Brendan. So the boys had already had that exposure to kind of semi blending a family on that side of things, which again, that's a different thing when they're five kids involved and they're all within kind of the same age group. Yes, I'm that would yeah, that would be really tricky. I often say you know especially over on social media, I'm often asked about blending a family and you know, people will come in and say, you make it look so easy. And one, it's never easy because regardless of the dynamics at hand and there's all these little things that happen, right? You know, like I'm thinking about Brendan as an individual and I'm thinking about the boys as an individual, and I'm trying to prioritize and keep sake for the relationship that I have with the kids, but also allow someone else in. Like there's so many things at hand that make it very much not easy, you know? But in saying that because Brendan doesn't have children, we don't have that extra layer of complexity where there's also the competition between siblings and those sorts of things, like the hierarchy that I imagine probably pops up when there are multiple children involved.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? What was it like for you when your ex introduced somebody to the kids?

 

Kylie Lately:
I've always had a really healthy outlook on pop is being introduced to the kids. I can remember my mum saying to me as a child, you know, if a family goes through a divorce and there's a step mom or a stepdad added, that's great because the more people to love the kids, the better. And so I've never had any angst surrounding it. Yeah, I think maybe too, because I'm very secure as a parent, I don't feel like there's any space that someone can come in and take over my role or fracture the relationship that I have with the boys. I think it would be different if I felt that way, like if I felt a bit insecure about the attachment I had with the kids and I felt like there was a space there that someone could come in. Maybe. But I've never I've had on my heart swear on everything. I've never felt any discomfort surrounding that. There are times when I'll have to kind of coach the boys through it a little bit. You know, they'll say, we don't like how so-and-so talks to us as if she's our mum. And I'll say to them, Hey, that's because she's a mum. She's not talking to you like that because she wants to replace your mum. That's just because she's a mum, you know, and try and try and help them through it. But yeah, I think the more people that can love and care for the kids the better.

 

Dr. Liz:
And do you guys ever do like events together.

 

Kylie Lately:
no, no, no, no. We're not, we're not family. We're not that I know. And I wish we were. I truly if it was up to me, I would be like, Get over here and have a barbecue. And the kids can all go for a swim. And again, I can't speak to how my ex thinks and what he feels, but what I interpret is that it's much easier for him to keep a very firm boundary there and keep me on that side and keep his new life on this side. And I respect that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and absolutely for some people that is that is just the cleanest way to do it. And it's the way it's the boundary that they need in order to manage their own mental health. And that that all makes sense for my ex and I. We're such good friends that we talk about, you know, we when one of us is dating or whatever that that is, we like the idea of the our family growing. We like the idea of there being especially because we only have one child. So most of our holidays, most of the things we do, it's just the three of us. And so the idea of extending and growing our family with as each, you know, having a partnership, but we're also very aware that we're the rare breed of a lot of exes. And that's not to say that I don't struggle with like that's not to say I don't struggle, but I'm just like welcoming and accepting of every woman in his life. That's not at all my point, but I try to be.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah. Like, I think that that friendship is the gold standard. And I wish that I had that. And honestly, when I went through my marriage separation, when we went through it, I thought that I would end up in the dynamic way. You know, my ex-husband would arrive to collect the children and he'd bring my being up for me, or he'd bring me a coffee and I'd do the same, and we'd have that easy friendship. But that's just not the way that it's transpired.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, which that is so common, but also so difficult and so difficult for God. Yeah, for everyone. Absolutely. So when you think about, you know, how you plan to move forward after your divorce, so obviously you're engaged. That means you're open to remarrying. And that's that's the plan.

 

Kylie Lately:
I'm I'm laughing because both Brendan and I don't want to get married.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. Fair. Please elaborate.

 

Kylie Lately:
Look, I think he obviously proposed to me. We like the idea of the commitment. There is that bit of us that likes the tradition. I guess maybe it's a I mean, obviously it's a deep societal thing, right? This whole, like, striving towards the next thing you know, you meet someone, you get engaged, you get married, you have a child, then you're on this conveyor belt and you never get off. But with us, we're engaged. Yes, I had a beautiful ring. I adore him. He adores me. But when we really sit down and think about it and talk about it, we don't really believe that deeply. In the institution of marriage. You know, there's so much of marriage that is steeped into female ownership. You know, you take the man's name, your father gives you away, the government gets involved. None of that is important to me. So I don't think that we actually properly will go ahead and have a legal marriage. But one of my boys really wants us to have a ceremony, so maybe we'll do that. Maybe not. I don't know. But yeah, I guess my views on marriage have changed.

 

Dr. Liz:
As have mine. And I'm right there with you. I do not intend on ever remarrying. However, I like what you're saying, and that's that is my thought on it as well as that commitment bother me. But I want to be able to wake up every day and choose that person who I am with. I want that to not be something that, you know, the government or that there's this document that has to be signed. But really, I'm choosing a life with this person. And so I love that you took it to the point of getting engaged, which I could see myself doing as well, like taking it that far and but not taking it further. But the ceremony also makes sense to a celebration of your love and your commitment. And that's very valid.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yes. And I think you can have a ceremony whenever you want. You know, if you're already married and you want to reaffirm and have the fun of it, go for it. And I think both Brendan I like the idea of getting dressed up and having friends and family around and having a celebration and having the boys there and getting photos. But neither of us feel very strongly about doing the paperwork side of things.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, I can completely relate to that. So what is maybe a couple of pieces of feedback, advice, ideas that you would give to somebody who's recently or maybe not even recently, but who is divorced and they're considering looking for love again, what what would you suggest?

 

Kylie Lately:
The most common thing I hear from people, whether that's people that are listening to my podcast or following along on social, the most common thing I hear, Elizabeth, is people feeling hopeless. You know, they really it seems like a lot of people, a lot of women, especially single moms are really, really down on themselves. And so I think having hope is the first one. Right? And I don't mean like, living every day because maybe just one day you'll meet the man, but just know that love is out there. Love is available. You will find it and just have that little bit of hope there. But don't make it your number one mission as well. You know, if you sit down and you think, what are these things that I imagine a relationship will give me, how can you start giving them to yourself first? I think that's one of the missing missing pieces of the puzzle for a lot of people. They're going out there and they're thinking, you know, I'm never going to have fun or I'm never going to have a romantic weekend away, or I'm never going to go on an adventure until I meet someone and tell then there's a deficit. But if you actually start meeting those needs for yourself and you start being that person that you want to be with, you're going to call in someone that's a match for that. So I think that would be my first piece of advice. My second piece of advice is get out there and meet people and take the pressure off, you know, say yes to the coffee date that you might not necessarily want to go on message, cast a wide net. Don't narrow yourself into this certain type of because that's all you've allow yourself to imagine yourself with. Broaden the horizons, broaden the goal posts. Don't have all of these super strict non-negotiables that make it really, really hard to meet someone.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, I absolutely agree. That's such a good feedback. Yes, I think really understanding, knowing yourself, increasing self-awareness and then getting very clear and it sounds like it's part of what you did as well on your needs, your wants, your boundaries, what's important to you, and then allowing yourself to really understand these are my non-negotiables, but I can be open to all these other things, you know, So you're that list is maybe a little shortened compared to what you're used to. And I think that makes a big difference as well.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's those those would be my biggest tips. I've actually got a whole guide on it called Surviving Separation that really takes you through doing some of that self work, building your self identity, healing, extending self-compassion, all of that stuff that's actually within your control. I think that's a good use of your energy, time and attention. And then you'll meet someone when you meet someone.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right? Absolutely. Where can people find that guy.

 

Kylie Lately:
Over at the fray dot com. The fray is a dot com or if people follow me on Instagram is Kylee lately and all of the links are there.

 

Dr. Liz:
Perfect and there are those your main the main places to connect with you is the the your website and.

 

Kylie Lately:
Yeah well.

 

Dr. Liz:
Very good.

 

Kylie Lately:
If people want to connect to someone over to Instagram. Kylie lately and you'll find all my stuff there.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. And again, you have such great content and I love the stuff you post with, you know, you and Brandon and really being so authentic about your love story. And it's it's really you provide good tips, good information, but also just good authenticity. So I really enjoy your content.

 

Kylie Lately:
Thank you. And likewise, I'm obsessed with your Instagram account.

 

Dr. Liz:
thank you so much. Thanks for hanging out, Kylie. I really appreciate it. I appreciate your vulnerability and just really the insights you gave.

 

Kylie Lately:
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thanks, Kylie, for the reminder that dating apps really can work. And thank you all for hanging out. Unrelatable Relationships unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.