Relatable podcast 

Rob Evors:
I've met somebody who just happens to be unavailable for a relationship at this time. I was getting to that point where I was going back. All right. Well, she has this, this, and this, but she doesn't have this, this and this. But what outweighs the other, you know? And then I met her and was like, Nope, nope. Even if I can't have her, I know that I don't have to settle. If you were going to looking for dragons and you were searching, searching, searching, and you couldn't find a dragon, and eventually you're like, Maybe dragons don't exist. Maybe I should just get a horse and put a cone on its head and, you know, call it a day or, you know, you could get a fire machine. Then you stumble across this cave and you see a dragon. But it flies off, you know? So, like, you still don't have the dragon, but you're like, it's there if they do exist and I can go find one.

 

Dr. Liz:
Why are we choosing a dragon over a unicorn?

 

Rob Evors:
I don't know. It's the way my brain works. It's so random.

 

Dr. Liz:
This is relatable. Relationships, unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable. Relationships Unfiltered. Today I'm hanging out with Rob Evors, host of the It's Complicated podcast. We chat all about hookup culture, including Rob's surprising take on it. Rob, thank you for hanging out today. You and I met on your podcast and we had a lot of fun and so I'm grateful for you to join me.

 

Rob Evors:
Listen, I'm I'm not kidding when I say this and the way I promoted it, too, for our podcast, like I learned more in that podcast than the year and a half. I've been with the show, my show, because like we were saying, we've had a lot of coaches and whatnot on there and therapists and psychics and all that stuff, but everybody's coming from like their own experience and then being like, I did this, you should do this, right? Does it work for everybody? And then you took like today's culture and brought down these free. It's like, I just saw this Tik tok where it's like a like somebody my age. I'm old, right? So it's somebody my age. She's teaching a bunch of kids that are like Gen Z. Sure. Right. And he's going through the lessons and he's like, What does this mean? What does this mean? What is, you know, Abadi and what's, you know. Yeah, and like that kind of stuff. And I was like, this is this is interesting. What are these words that's like, like this was

 

Dr. Liz:
What is Abadi in your in your own words.

 

Rob Evors:
Rob Abadi is a independent man or woman who is curvy but also has a lot of sex appeal.

 

Dr. Liz:
Why do we have to say is curvy? And also has a little.

 

Rob Evors:
Mean and also curvy and curvy with sex appeal? Excuse me, I'm just trying to remember the words I saw on the on the projecting screen that was.

 

Dr. Liz:
Curvy or they're curvy, but that's okay. They're still sexy.

 

Rob Evors:
It's funny that I'm getting called out for that because I wondered why he put that on the definition also. Like, why does that have to be an adjective? Good.

 

Dr. Liz:
Save. Good save on that one.

 

Rob Evors:
Serious. But that's not right. And now the fucking assholes.

 

Dr. Liz:
Now you're the one who repeated it.

 

Rob Evors:
So now you weren't going down with it. So yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
We're going to talk about speaking of culture. We're going to talk about hookup culture today, which when you and I connected on your pod, we were the only single ones and took pride in our single dumb singleness, single, whatever. So we're going to talk about it from that angle because I think it's actually going to be pretty interesting that as single as you and I both identify as and very, very openly and that it is our choice, I think that we handle that singleness very differently.

 

Rob Evors:
When we started on the podcast, I don't know if it was your show, but we started using the word single, taking that out of our vocabulary and starting using the word solo because single has like a negative connotation, like you're not coupled up, right? Not a pair, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
So I assuming up it happened after because I remember I said I'm single by choice and you were like, I like that. Me too.

 

Rob Evors:
Yes. Yeah. And that's you know, that's the thing is that like so many people go rushing to find this other person because they feel like they're less than especially when they get like later in age. Sure. You know, And I still want to find somebody like but I'm not desperate to find somebody. And I don't know.

 

Dr. Liz:
If you found somebody, like, how would that how would that person be set apart?

 

Rob Evors:
You know, it's funny you ask that, because I have I've met I've met somebody who just happens to be unavailable for a relationship at this time. But her characteristics like and and her and the way she, like I'm attracted to her is something that I'm like, you do exist. You know, it's almost like I met somebody where I was like, kind of giving up. I was getting to that point where I was going to be like, All right, well, she has this, this and this, but she doesn't have this, this and this. But what outweighs the other? You know her. And then I met her and was like, Nope, nope. Even if I can't have her, I know that I don't have to settle.

 

Dr. Liz:
But she's not available.

 

Rob Evors:
She's not available.

 

Dr. Liz:
So then that kind of still keeps you in the same boat.

 

Rob Evors:
No, I'm still single, but at least I know now that she like that somebody like her does exist. Do you know what I mean?

 

Dr. Liz:
No, I know exactly what you mean. I just mean the same boat. There's still, like, compromise or sacrifice or, like. So this thing does exist, but I still don't have this thing.

 

Rob Evors:
Right? Yeah. Not.

 

Dr. Liz:
Not to, like, rain on your parade. Shit. That sounds really like.

 

Rob Evors:
No, no, no, I don't. I don't see it like that at all. I really don't. I see it more of a in the positive light of of, you know, if you were giving it, if you were going looking for dragons and you were searching, searching, searching and you couldn't find a dragon, and eventually you're like, You know what? I've been fucking doing this for like 47 years. Maybe dragons don't exist. Maybe I should just get a horse and put a cone on its head and, you know, call it a day or, you know, get a fire machine. Then. Then you stumble across this cave and you see a dragon, but it flies off, you know? So like, you still don't have the dragon, but you're like, it's there. It they do exist and I can go find one.

 

Dr. Liz:
Why are we choosing a dragon over a unicorn?

 

Rob Evors:
I don't know. It's the way my brain works. It's so random. Like, I also like, did a unicorn with Disney, and.

 

Dr. Liz:
I'm like, Wait, are we talking about unicorns or dragons? Fire breathing unicorns? Then is that a thing now?

 

Rob Evors:
It's Thursday and I haven't had a drink yet, so I'm sorry. You're the one I know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. So from the hookup culture perspective, though, and how long have you been single?

 

Rob Evors:
Geez. So I broke up with my ex. I want to quote girlfriend. I want to use that air quotes because it was only for months and we had a huge difference. So we kind of knew it wasn't going to like last. Sure. But that was like literally we were fighting right before COVID started. And when we found out we were going to have to be like quarantine in other places, we were like, Yeah, maybe. Maybe we call it quits now. Now seems like a good time. Got it. Literally the day before, so I can trace it back to like the day called. It started so like March, was it April 1st? March 22nd. So I'm like that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, So I mean, solid then. Three years.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. And what does the hookup culture look like to you? Like, so what does it look like for you to be single? Like, are you so single as in not committed, but are you do you have multiple situation ships? Do you have multiple one night stands? Like what does your life look like? Rob as a single man?

 

Rob Evors:
So part of the reason I just moved to Austin, Texas, from L.A.. Okay. And part of the reason I left was because L.A. is kind of more of a hookup culture. It's like more it's okay to be doing that all the time. Nobody's really looking for their night in shining armor or their Cinderella, you know that. Nobody's looking for that yet. They kind of get to a point where they're like, shit, Wait, what? How much time do I have left? I got to find somebody. You know? The thing that's interesting about our podcast that I tell people is that Lauren's married with two kids. Jen was on all the dating apps trying to find somebody, and she was like, really trying to find somebody, which is why we kind of question the new relationship. What we did in the beginning is was like, did you find the right person or do you just find a person? Sure. You know, it's a valid question. Yeah, I think so. And then and then I'm not on any dating apps at all. Okay. I'm a little different than most single men out there because I'm trying, but I'm a hopeless romantic, so, like, I'm not going out after it all the time. I, I, I guess it's like I've done the one night stands a lot and I never felt good after it. It I've had the relationships that I've had thought I was in love. I still don't know if I know what love is. I still don't know if I've ever been loved as much as I've loved.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. And so is that based on the people you continue to pursue.

 

Rob Evors:
Is based on the there's the past relationships and how they ended, you know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Do you have a type, though? Do you like what is what what's the type.

 

Rob Evors:
Type is girl next door. I mean, it sounds so, you know, everybody says this, but it's not like at all. I'm not going after Instagram models and I'm not It's like if you're I don't know, it's something like brown hair, brown eyes or blue eyes, big, you know, the same kind of thing. But like girl next door hot, you can call it. But like, I don't know. I always know when I get a feeling you're going to get the feeling that I want to see you again and again and again. And you could be the hottest draw I've ever seen. But if I don't want to see you again, then I don't want to pursue it. Right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. So. Well.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah. What's your hook up girl culture now? And I don't even.

 

Dr. Liz:
good.

 

Rob Evors:
I don't know what where you are either. In we never discussed like early thirties is where you where what was your past re like. Like I know you were in something for a while but like how long have you been out?

 

Dr. Liz:
Are you asking for a relational history? Are we going to do a little bit of analysis here?

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah. So I was like, How close are you to freaking out?

 

Dr. Liz:
Freaking out about what?

 

Rob Evors:
Like if like, I don't know about if you need to find somebody, you need to be with somebody or like.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, So I did things very I had my son at 22, so I got married at 18. and then I had my son at 22. So I have a 16 year old son. So like I'm not a lot of my clients, a lot of my friends are in their mid to late thirties and there is a little bit of that freak out, so to speak, in terms of my clock is ticking, but I don't want to settle and but I do want kids. But I, you know, there's a lot of that that goes on. That's not my experience because I have a teenage son and I do not want more kids. And so.

 

Rob Evors:
You don't. Why?

 

Dr. Liz:
No, not even sort of.

 

Rob Evors:
You get all the lingo down. Then for the Gen Z, you don't need a tick tock. You just go straight to your son.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes.

 

Rob Evors:
Wow. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
And he makes fun of me quite a bit for that. Yes. So he makes fun of me. If you say the word, you're not allowed to say it. He'll explain them to you. But don't use it in a sentence because that would just be cringe to everyone. So I'm very aware. So because of that though, like, I'm not I, I don't have an urgency. But my the difference I think is that I do have a desire for connection. So that and that's a newer thing. I've been divorced for about three and a half years and so the first couple of years was my ex is still my best friend. So there was a lot of that emotional connection that still existed that there wasn't we weren't hooking up or things like that. It was just emotional connection. A lot of those emotional needs are being met. So. So now I'm more getting to the place where I would like connection, but and I guess there's conversations going different than I had anticipated because, I mean, no offense, I don't I don't know if there's any other way to say this, though. So probably a sense will be taken. So I assumed you were actively one night standing it based on our previous conversations.

 

Rob Evors:
What what about our previous conversations made you think I was going? I was 3 million around Austin, Texas. Wow.

 

Dr. Liz:
So let me tell you, when we were talking about breadcrumbs, you had mentioned that you have done that before. Like, so if you are drunk or something like that, you might reach out to somebody for that attention. And so then my mind kind of went to a little bit of factoid like. Okay. I mean, you.

 

Rob Evors:
Know, this is good to know because you don't know, right? So, like, that's what I'm saying with that podcast that we did with you is like, shit, I never I don't see myself as a frat boy, but other people fucking might now, you know, because, well, I'm realizing that I've done stuff that I didn't know was fuck boy quality, you know, so. Right. So what I meant by that was I don't go out looking for it, but if somebody I know is interested in me or they tell me they're interested in me and I'm not interested if they get me at the right time when I'm drunk and everybody likes to be told that they're wanted for sure again, I might fall victim to that person giving me. I might.

 

Dr. Liz:
Slip and fall.

 

Rob Evors:
For somebody Like what? I really, really like you. And they say that enough times and then you're like, I'm not interested. And then you're you have three tequila shots and eight beers and it's 8:00 at night. And they're like, I want to make out with you. Then it's like, okay, but you know, I like you. And it's like, Yeah, I like you too. You know, it's like, I've always liked you, but then you don't see the other part. Not like that, you know? Right, Right. So that's why I'm not like, getting in my car and throwing breadcrumbs out the window back to my house.

 

Dr. Liz:
So it sounds like intimacy then, is important to you, which is that's the other side of my story is that, like, so I wish like, honestly, I wish I could just have casual sex. I wish I could just be like, you know, take all these other elements out of it and just make it that simple. And a lot of my clients, a lot of my friends like a lot of people, but even a lot of females, they can do that. It's just having sex for the sake of sex and it's still enjoyable to them if there's not an emotional connection. I don't like it doesn't do anything for me, so I don't want any part of it. And so that's probably where my singleness struggles because I'm like, I'm not I can't just get that need met anywhere because even if I'm doing it, it doesn't get the need met.

 

Rob Evors:
So when was the last time you had sex?

 

Dr. Liz:
that is very straightforward of you. Probably about two weeks ago.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
Somebody, I have an emotional connection with.

 

Rob Evors:
So you do have an emotional connection to them?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay, So I. I went like two years almost.

 

Dr. Liz:
Without having sex.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah. I mean, coffee was a big part of it, right? So now what do you mean how? I just.

 

Dr. Liz:
Didn't know. I said, Holy cow. But I know how could have been. Holy cow.

 

Rob Evors:
And All right, so when a man and a woman get together, this is what happens.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's a long time.

 

Rob Evors:
It was. And but like I said, like you had life experiences, right? And you obviously are a confident person. So, like, you don't need that validation from somebody. Sure. I feel I'm a I'm a pretty insecure person, but like, I've already done that to validate myself. Right a lot. So like now at this stage in my life, there's not going to do I know that's not going to do anything for me, you know? So the person I did wind up having sex with is she was in an open relationship.

 

Dr. Liz:
Did you like her?

 

Rob Evors:
I like yeah, I know we were very friendly and I didn't have an emotional connection to her, but I but like, I didn't let myself go there, as in, like, I could date her because she was she had, like, a a blockage, but she had a boyfriend. Sure. You know what I mean? And you would.

 

Dr. Liz:
You wouldn't be in an open relationship dynamic.

 

Rob Evors:
I know. No. And I wouldn't want that for me either. But it was on them. She came to me about it and I was like, All right, well, if you guys have talked about this and you're okay and I'm not going to get my door kicked in at any time, then sure, You know, Right. And that went on until she moved and they they moved away, which was great. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
I so it lasted for a while.

 

Rob Evors:
It lasted for like, yeah, like four months. Okay. Yeah. So I didn't.

 

Dr. Liz:
Watch your current. Are you in another dry spell or what's your current situation.

 

Rob Evors:
Another dry spell which I'm fine with. Okay. There's some friends that I have their girlfriends that I kind of want to be like, Do you want to just friends with benefits? It you know, because that seems Segway.

 

Dr. Liz:
I want to talk about that.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
Now go for it.

 

Rob Evors:
Well, there are some people that I want to ask that with, but I know that either they've kind of made it clear the attraction is not there, you know, this, or they're like really, really looking for the next one, which I am too. But they're like, I'm not having sex until it's with my future husband. Ah, do you know what I mean? So it's a religious thing too.

 

Dr. Liz:
So you're open to friends with benefits. So then let me ask you, if you if connection or having sex is important, like the emotional, emotional connection is important to you.

 

Rob Evors:
Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
And then you have this friend with benefits.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Is that likely to get blurred for you?

 

Rob Evors:
I don't know. I've never I guess with the with the open relationship person, it did start to get a little blurred. Right, because we were spending a lot of time together also. So there was like this friendship that was also, you know, there wasn't all the other bullshit involved. So it was it was easy to just be together, you know? It wasn't like, does she like me do it? Does she think I like her? Like I have to take her out or I have to call her? There's a minimum amount of times we have to, you know, play this game. We didn't have to do that. We were just like, We get it, we're in, you know?

 

Dr. Liz:
What was that like for you, though, emotionally?

 

Rob Evors:
It was good, but it ended at before it got messy. It ended at the right time. And we're both kind of like I think we're both starting like it's starting to get a little weird, so we should stop. And you're moving soon anyway, and I'm leaving the country, so we should stop. But yeah, I don't know.

 

Dr. Liz:
So before it could like escalate into knowing if it because I think that that's where it gets complicated. I want to say that I could I mean, so I'm, I'm in a get we'll call it a situation ship if you haven't been on tick tock lately which it sounds like you have you probably know the term of that. And so we have said multiple times that, okay, we can make this a friends with benefits thing, but I know I can't. Well, clearly I can. I No, I choose not to have sex with somebody unless I have an emotional connection. And if I have an emotional connection, then are you really a friend with benefits or are you more than that? And we're just not labeling it, which we don't have to label it.

 

Rob Evors:
But what what is the base is your two weeks ago a friends with benefits.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, it's the same guy.

 

Rob Evors:
Were you friends with them first? Yes. Are you friends with him now? Yes. Did you put any kind of other relationship stamp on it? You know, you're friends with benefits.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. But it's not like it's not so like.

 

Rob Evors:
Doesn't have to be. But so you're putting a label on it because then it's like Friends with Benefits is a label, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
I guess that's.

 

Rob Evors:
True. Yeah, because now you're getting squirmy because all of a sudden you said friends benefit. Yeah. Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
So if you are friends with benefits, are you a jealous person?

 

Rob Evors:
Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. So then does that influence being your ability to be friends with benefits?

 

Rob Evors:
No, no, because I think if I decide that when I'm friends with benefits, seeing I'm looking other places for my person. So there's there's, there's no like, wait, you're mine. Do you know what I mean? Like, I know you like especially with this throuple thing. I knew she belonged to somebody else. Like belong. You know, you're going to call me and you're.

 

Dr. Liz:
Going to hear about that.

 

Rob Evors:
One you were. You know what I mean? She was somebody else, right? So I didn't have to worry about that. You know, Got lot friends, but yeah. So friends, the benefits, I think, would be. But that's just for the sex too, right? Because I don't want to be I don't want I don't like I don't want to have a random person at my house then have a one night stand and have to go see them out. And then, you know, we're friends. We're all friends with each other. And I have to hang out with that person again. You know, I'm sure I'm tired of that game.

 

Dr. Liz:
So part of the, I guess, benefit of friends with benefits would be that there is just like an understanding. So it's just the same person it's happening with. So then in a way then that is a little bit of a commitment.

 

Rob Evors:
Well, I like you, you like me. We like spending time together as friends. You're attractive. You think I'm attractive, which I must have gotten you drunk. But you we like we have this mutual understanding that we have needs that need to be met, that are, and that we don't want to go out into the world and risk a whole bunch of things. Sure. You know, pregnancy, disease, all this other stuff. Right. And that we can hang out and be fun. And we have this understanding that, you know, we're just we're friends. So if you if one of us comes the other and says, I'm starting to get feelings and that's a whole nother conversation you can have.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I guess I just don't know how you don't. And what is your experience with that? What's your experience with the gender differences in that?

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah, so to say, because my experience with it is usually that I'm good at cutting. I'm a Gemini, right? So I'm good at like cutting things where the emotion where I need to. But I the times that I've been hooking up with friends and it's kind of going on long time feelings have definitely come the other way. And then Nikki Yeah, no pun intended.

 

Dr. Liz:
And how do you identify attachment style wise?

 

Rob Evors:
Once I like you, I'm in.

 

Dr. Liz:
K, but like from A to Z, like, so sorry, let me so like with so there's anxious attachment avoidant. Have you guys done this on your show at all?

 

Rob Evors:
No. You need to come back.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I need to come back. You guys need to talk about this. So anxious is like the pursuer. They're the over texter. They fall in love quickly. The avoidant is need space needs, time is then shorter response is is like okay, kind of back off.

 

Rob Evors:
I'm not that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay so and then disorganized as this combination of both it's this push and pull it's kind of like, c'mere, love me No. Okay, that's too close. Back up a little bit.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
What else is on your face? And then they're secure, and that's healthy and boring. And those are the lucky people that none of us really know.

 

Rob Evors:
So, yes, there was a Dragons in the game. I was going to say, those are the.

 

Dr. Liz:
Unicorns or fire breathing.

 

Rob Evors:
Women with the right person. I'll be secure. Do you know when I think that when I'm with the right person, that's when I'll be like, Yeah, go do that. And also, my life lessons are leading me that way.

 

Dr. Liz:
Have you had that before?

 

Rob Evors:
Secure?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Evors:
No.

 

Dr. Liz:
Then how do you know that it's just going to happen like that?

 

Rob Evors:
Because it's I've gotten close.

 

Dr. Liz:
With the person not in a relay or the person not.

 

Rob Evors:
Available? No, with the person. But I've gotten close in a relationship where I could feel secure. But then she she kind of three, six feet in or 180 and not so secure was not so secure. Gosh, no. I think mostly what I can relate to from past experiences is probably anxious.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, so you're more the pursuer.

 

Rob Evors:
When I like. Yeah, I know.

 

Dr. Liz:
I can see what you're saying though, because I'm the same. Like if I don't have feelings for you that way, I'm like, it's like those mediums that is, I need to rearrange my refrigerator. I'll call you later. That type of thing. You know.

 

Rob Evors:
You're the what would you call it, Disorganized.

 

Dr. Liz:
I'm disorganized. Yeah.

 

Rob Evors:
I'm right in between anxious and disorganized and disorganized until I get anxious.

 

Dr. Liz:
So, like, organized includes anxious. So you're a push and pull until you're in, and now you're anxious.

 

Rob Evors:
And now I'm in. Okay, So it's like, I don't know what I want to do. I mean, God. If you go ask my best girlfriend, who we've kept each other alive through all our relationships and everything for 25 years. And if you ask her, that's exactly me to a I'll be like, I don't know if I should dater she's this, this and this and I'll come up with excuses and I'll be like, I don't want to date an actress again. Or, you know, she, she doesn't have her own place. She lives with somebody, you know, like whatever it is. And then, but I like her. But my so my heart will be saying one thing, my brain will be saying another. So I'll do the push pull because I also don't want to lose them. But then I'm also keeping myself safe. Sure, I'm in. I'm like, don't go, don't go, don't go. Please don't go. Please don't go.

 

Dr. Liz:
Do you find a lot of reasons to not let somebody in?

 

Rob Evors:
I don't know. It depends. It depends on how much I like them. I think it's a hard question because if I like you, I'm in. Like, if I get that feeling, I'm in, you know, I'm just. Let's see where it goes. Fuck all those red flags. Me with my green paint just doing this the whole time, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes.

 

Rob Evors:
But I know when I know that happens that I'm. Then I'm in. But then I. But if, if it's questionable then I. Yeah. I have a hard time letting somebody in.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well. Well, I kind of want to dig into your relational programing a little bit because I'm curious.

 

Rob Evors:
How these 2023 words on me that I don't understand.

 

Dr. Liz:
Excuse me. This is my clinical term to describe how your upbringing influences your romantic relationships.

 

Rob Evors:
Jesus. So we're going to be here for 3 hours. Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Wasn't that very clinical of me and not to talk at all. I'm I'm assuming you're attracted to avoidance.

 

Rob Evors:
Elaborate.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. So when you get into a relationship, is this person maybe don't maybe. Do you tend to get breadcrumbs? Maybe they don't give you as much time or attention or affection or reassurance that you want. You become the pursuer. Or are they the ones that often withdraw?

 

Rob Evors:
No, it's I don't it's very I mean, at the end, yes. At the when it's when it's like near the I could tell when somebody is about to go.

 

Dr. Liz:
What usually gets it their.

 

Rob Evors:
Me seeing that they're you know, it's a typical thing of like you feel somebody pulling away so you run after me even more and then they then that makes them go away even further. And then you go over more and then before you know you're pushing them out of your life.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay? So yeah, you just describe the anger subordinate dance. And so that would be. Tell me about your parents a little here rub.

 

Rob Evors:
well, they both were from a second marriage.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay.

 

Rob Evors:
Dad. Three time Vietnam vet. Crazy. Wow. He was crazy. He volunteered three tours for Vietnam. And when I asked him why, he looked me. He's from South Georgia. He looked me in the eye, and he's like, Son, figure if I'm going to kill people on Mars, I'll do it legally. And I was like, All right, well, I'm going go do my homework for the next ten years. I'll see you at graduation. You will. Don't murder. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Don't kill anyone while you're out there.

 

Rob Evors:
So he would your mom and he was a hard man to grow up with.

 

Dr. Liz:
Or.

 

Rob Evors:
Mom? Mom was my best friend. Got Mom tattooed right there. She was my. My best friend in the world. Protect her. Protect me. Those two, though, should not have been together. That's one of those old, you know, eighties nineties cases of. They stayed together for the kids. Sure. And I remember I remember telling my friends whose parents were getting divorced, they were like, my parents are getting divorces sucks. And I was like, Well, at least your dad's not talking shit about your mom in the living room. Your mom's not talking shit about your dad in the kitchen, you know, like stuck in between, like I'd rather fucking go their separate ways and get this done.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I remember feeling that way a lot. The same. Like, just.

 

Rob Evors:
That the.

 

Dr. Liz:
How much conflict they had, it was like I'd rather be. And that that was always their thing, right? Like, we're staying together for you guys. Fuck that. Please don't. Like, you're not doing anyone any favors.

 

Rob Evors:
You will. Do you think that's why we're so content being by ourself? Because we, we see that there's that attachment that people do, even though they're not happy. They stay in relationships and they. They go to relationships with you. We're like, I'd rather be by myself than yelling with somebody in the fucking kitchen, you know?

 

Dr. Liz:
And that's for sure. But I guess I would be curious, even with you identifying as your mom's best friend, or that you were your mom's best friend, do you feel that you did a lot of maybe emotional caretaking for her in some ways like that she would lean on you or talk about your dad, things like that?

 

Rob Evors:
No. Okay. No. Well, they were they were a very clique that I was I knew that I was loved in that family and with my parents very with my dad at near the end of his life to a lot. But like, it wasn't like they came to me. I mean, they would talk shit to me about the other one, you know? But it wasn't like. Can I ask you a question? Or why is your why is your mom doing this? Or why is your dad doing this? You know, like that kind of stuff. It was never.

 

Dr. Liz:
It was just like snide remarks.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah, it was. It was more of like venting. They didn't care who was there, you know, especially your kid brothers or sisters. I have two sisters. Yeah. So my older sister is she's two years older. And then my younger sister is eight years younger. I think here's what I'm getting to. I think my sister is exude. It's what is it word showing.

 

Dr. Liz:
Exuding.

 

Rob Evors:
Exuding. A lot of the character instincts that my mom had with my dad.

 

Dr. Liz:
like caretaking.

 

Rob Evors:
Caretaking, Yes. But my mom worked three jobs. My dad was the guy trying to start a new company every other week. Okay. But. And he she makes a lot of money. She's a big boss at a company, and he doesn't I think he does telemarketing or whatever, but like, I think she just doesn't want to be alone. And I think that's what my thing with my mom was. I think she didn't want to be alone. She didn't want to start over. You know, And because the eighties was a way different time.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. You know, So maybe that's part of what you're seeing then. Like you were saying earlier, part of that is not wanting to end up in a dysfunctional relationship, but also not settling just to be in a relationship.

 

Rob Evors:
Right.

 

Dr. Liz:
But then at the same time, is there some fear of intimacy going on for you that you tend to find reasons and that's no judgment. I full of my own fear of intimacy, intimacy, intimacy in the sense of really trusting commitment, trusting that people are safe and trustworthy. Do you struggle with that?

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah, I 100% struggle with that. I don't it's weird because, you know, we do this a lot on the It's Complicated podcast because the girls do still live in L.A.. You never lived in L.A., right?

 

Dr. Liz:
I grew up in Southern California, but not in L.A. and I didn't live there as an adult.

 

Rob Evors:
Right. It's a it's a weird culture out there because you really like I make a joke that, you know, the be the the list that you can have where you can go like, fuck other people like a hall pass.

 

Dr. Liz:
the pass. Yeah, yeah.

 

Rob Evors:
The hall pass. Well you can't have a hall pass in L.A. because you're probably going to run into those people you're going for like on a daily basis. Right. And also, like, everybody's always looking for the bigger, better thing. Everybody's always looking for, you know, How can you help me? I had a conversation with a girl right after I moved out here. We were talking at a party and it was like an hour into our conversation. She was like, So what do you do? And I was like, Wait, what? You're asking me now what I do? That's usually the first 30 seconds of a conversation in Los Angeles, because if you don't answer right there on and there's a lot of this too. Yeah. You know, a.

 

Dr. Liz:
Lot of surface level.

 

Rob Evors:
So you just never know with the people there, you're always on guard. And it's a city of huge insecurities. You're getting told you're not good enough 90 times a year. If it's not three times that, you know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Is that not how our dating culture kind of feels in general? Don't I know you're saying you're not on any app, so you probably don't have that direct experience, but that's a lot of what I experience on the apps or with people I talk to. It's always the grass is greener, right? So we're going to keep swiping or will semi invest, but we're like, there's a whole slew of people who are going to like me again tomorrow so I don't have to overly commit. It kind of seems like our society in general.

 

Rob Evors:
Well, that's why I'm not on the apps. A lot of it is because like I like I say, I want to meet somebody organically, but I'm also not going up to people in supermarkets and being like, Hey, give me your number. You know, how are you.

 

Dr. Liz:
Meeting people.

 

Rob Evors:
At like parties, parties, a bar if mutual friends, you know, concerts, just walking up, talking to people, old school stuff, right. But also I'm not on the dating apps because maybe I'm not good looking enough. You know, maybe maybe, like, seriously. But like, that's the kind of thing that I mean, think about it. I started acting when I was 12, and then I spent my entire adult life in Los Angeles. So, like, I'm used to being told that I'm not good enough.

 

Dr. Liz:
There's a lot of insecurities there.

 

Rob Evors:
100%. And it's like, okay, I mean, even the pictures I sent you, like for this podcast, you know, for the publicity of it, I was like, No, no. I mean, I went back and found stuff from like a long time ago that was like, I guess I still do, you know what I mean? It's interesting putting myself on these things, like finding pictures to put on these apps to be like, Choose me, pick me.

 

Dr. Liz:
But do you find then when it's organic, it's your personality then is okay?

 

Rob Evors:
Also, I think I might be I might be one of those better in real life than on pictures type of people.

 

Dr. Liz:
But so you risk less rejection or you fear less rejection when you're meeting people in person versus just based on your picture.

 

Rob Evors:
Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's got to be really fucking hard to live your life as an actor and live your life in L.A with. So those insecurities already exist for so many of us, and then for them just to be beat into you for years and years and years.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah, I it's, I don't even. What? I don't even watch myself on TV. The only people that I would tell when I'm on my shows are on is my mom, who has passed, you know? So I don't even tell I don't tell anybody. I tell my sister because she's in Ireland and I know she can't stream it, you know, but I don't really tell anybody what I'm on. And then I am on. I watch it just to make sure I did the job that I wanted to do. Sure. And then I erase it because I will sit there and pick myself apart the entire time.

 

Dr. Liz:
Has anyone told you that besides people who that's their job to kind of tell you you're not good enough, which what a fucked up job that is, but has have you had that personal experience, like socially, where a woman has told you like you're not like you're not attractive enough.

 

Rob Evors:
Not in so many words, but like I've had people that I thought I was vibing with tell me that, you know, describe men that they've dated before that are like supermodels, you know what I mean? Or like all CW actors you got on, which I've been on the CW, but I'm not playing the, you know, the attractive guy. I'm playing the cop arresting the attractive guy. So but, but yeah, so I've had that in person. Like once they don't come out and say it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, maybe you're just perceiving it.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
Did you go to are you in Texas acting then or did you have a career? Okay, you're acting okay. I'm okay. I want to talk about one other thing before we wrap up. What about hooking up with a friend's ex? So this has been a topic. that's the immediate shaking of your head.

 

Rob Evors:
So what? You know, you know, all my friends are on that show right?

 

Dr. Liz:
No. So you're saying that. Okay, so, so elaborate on what your point that may would make it really awkward.

 

Rob Evors:
Well, I mean, I'm just I'm just saying that from watching this show that I think you're talking about. Are you talking about the Sandoval stuff? You're talking about that.

 

Dr. Liz:
No, I'm just talking about in general, would you date of a friend ex or would you?

 

Rob Evors:
That was why was a hot topic. Because this is all going on, you know, But I wouldn't do it. And I have like, hard lines about that. Okay. Why? Because there's a 3 billion people in the world and like, why do you have to go after somebody who had an emotional 7 billion people in the world? Three of them, 3 billion of them are probably people I'd be into. But like they I would be like, there's my point is there's so many. Why do you have to go after somebody that your best friend or good friend had an emotional attachment to? It doesn't make sense to me. And I've had it happen to me a Okay.

 

Dr. Liz:
And it's hurtful to you.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah, it's hurt. I mean, look, I've also been the best man in their weddings. You know, I've also gotten over it and realized that they're getting married and let me be joyous. But yeah, it's definitely hurtful. I just I just don't think there's any reason to do it. You.

 

Dr. Liz:
I don't. I guess I'm outnumbered with this. So I guess my stance is my own stance. But the conversation came up because my son, my teenage son was talking about how his friend has a crush on one of his friend's acts or whatever, and he was like, it was like, so controversial as he's telling me. And I'm like, okay, But like, what's really the big deal? So he's like describing it. And then I'm telling my situation ship about this story and he's like, Yeah, no, that's fucked up. You can't do that. And I'm like, But why? And so then I'm like, Okay.

 

Rob Evors:
So you're saying that if with your sitch see you and your situation ship, right, actually had a relationship. And then you broke up around Christmas, and then what? And Melissa all of a sudden starts dating your situation ship. You're going to be like, fine. That's that's. You know, for the for the for the world, for the nature, for the love of everybody. Like, everybody deserves to experience this person.

Dr. Liz:
Well, first of all, Melissa is chiming in on the chat saying it would not be her. However, they both have quite the love for Chick-Fil-A, so like they would already know where they're going to be dating, like it would be welcoming.

 

Rob Evors:
So there you have their first dinner planned.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, I get your point. But Melissa's also, like, one of my best friends, so that's a little different. Like there could.

 

Rob Evors:
Be, as you said, best friends.

 

Dr. Liz:
I didn't say best friend. I just said friend. You're the one who jumped to best friend. We can give a little no whining.

 

Rob Evors:
So there's rules here. You're starting to make rules about it as it goes along.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, it could be like an acquaintance.

 

Rob Evors:
If it's an acquaintance, that's different. Look, here's the thing. If. If I. There's been. There's definitely, like, times where I've date. I've hooked up with people that were exes of acquaintances. Okay, Because we had that acquaintance in common. That's what made us, like, be like each other and be like, Hey, but acquaintance is not your friend.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay? But a friend is also not your best friend.

 

Rob Evors:
I wince. You're my friends. I consider you like somebody close enough that I would never do that to. Okay, good. I don't know how many people have best friends, but like, if you're just making it about two or three people that you can't go to, that's fine. I consider once I have like a like any kind of, like emotional relationship with you as far as like, friend wise goes, No, I don't. I can't do that. Why would I do that?

 

Dr. Liz:
I don't know. But I need to search into this a little bit further from a social psychology standpoint, because I bet if I put a survey on my story, I bet 90% of the people would agree with you.

 

Rob Evors:
I bet you're wrong, because Parts of this show that I'm talking about, which is huge right now, it's a reality TV show. It's called Vanderpump Rules. Sure. And right. And right now, the whole category that's going on with it is that what these two friends got together And Well, there was cheating involved. They and they kind of like did this whole secret life and cheated on this one person. But they were supposedly friends that hooked up. And the storyline before that was that a couple married and they got divorced and then the wife didn't want the husband hooking up with anybody in the friend group. That's the one rule don't have out with anybody in the friend group. And the husband went and hooked up with somebody and the friend group made out and the whole world turned against him and they're all on the girls side.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. So that's all I'm saying, that they probably would all agree with you if I did a survey.

 

Rob Evors:
But I thought you said I agree with you.

 

Dr. Liz:
no, I don't think they would agree with me. I think that they would agree with you.

 

Rob Evors:
And you're proving it right now. It's no that. Would they? I mean, it's like the biggest show on TV right now. They had watch parties last night.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. But the question is, is this based in societal expectations, just like we should be in a committed relationship and we should stay married and we shouldn't have multiple sexual partners and all these should and shouldn't, Is that actually based in legitimacy or did somebody decide this for us? And now we all have just taken it as truth.

 

Rob Evors:
Okay. Wow. Does gravity really exist? You know, it's like, whatever I want, get out of here. No, but, like, it's it's the same thing of like, yeah, we look as a society, we say murder is bad, right? There's. You're here, but you're hurting people, right? You're hurting other people. There's people that are getting pain and it might not be the person getting murdered, but it's the family. It's everybody else. It's the consequences of it. So when you are doing all these things that society says it's bad, it's because we as a society said, this hurts, this is this doesn't feel good. This isn't a majority, At least 90, 98% of us said that. And that's how, you know, you read that book Sapiens sapiens.

 

Dr. Liz:
No. But do you really believe that about like marriage in general, that that that we get married because it's what we have, like it's what is what's best for people or.

 

Rob Evors:
No, I think marriage is is a weird long tradition of selling somebodys daughter to somebody else for a harvest. Like I don't believe. Look, marriage is just a party to be like, hey, look, I did this, you know, right? And I'm but it's also standing in front of people and saying, I choose this person for the rest of my life. And I think that if you have that kind of, like I said, 98% or maybe 90% of the people that do this is because they're saying, I love you enough that I want to be with you forever. So if somebody cheats on you and disrespects that love, then that's bad.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. But again, there's gray area. I'm not talking about if cheating is right or wrong. Like, okay, I can agree with you on that, but I'm saying like even divorce. So if you so like I did made a decision at eight nine prior to my prefrontal cortex being fully developed and then I decide later in life, hey, that maybe wasn't the best choice for me. I can make that choice. And it's not about hurt, even if it probably did cause hurt it. I still have the right to make that choice, even if society's telling me that I don't.

 

Rob Evors:
Well, I think that's an old society. I don't think divorce is is. I think that's you were definitely brought up in your Christian religion. That's definitely probably bad. You know so like I think in today's world if you that's the whole point of this whole Vanderpump thing was that if they didn't cheat if they just said, hey, I'm breaking up with you, and then that person deal with the breakup and then went and did whatever they wanted to, that's a whole nother conversation to have. But like when you're purposely hurting somebody that.

 

Dr. Liz:
I can agree what it.

 

Rob Evors:
Was, was that the question?

 

Dr. Liz:
I don't know what the fuck we're talking about anymore anyway.

 

Rob Evors:
I don't have one night stands any more. I want to find somebody to be with, but I'm taking my time and I am choosing wisely, I hope.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, Well, thank you for clarifying all of that. I'm glad I have this different perspective of you in this conversation that I didn't lap in the last night. When you put.

 

Rob Evors:
This up there on your podcast, can you just put under my my picture and you put not fuck boy absolutely right there I'll say that former fuck boy never fuck boy.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay sure to do that.

 

Rob Evors:
X And.

 

Dr. Liz:
You said x bread crumbs or not bread crumbs.

 

Rob Evors:
Now that I know what it is, I'm not going to do it anymore.

 

Dr. Liz:
okay. Look at you. You are so evolved. Where can people find you? Where Whatever your socials and everything like that.

 

Rob Evors:
My I only have one social media because that's the safest thing for me. It's at forever's Ebbers folder. EV e r s ev 0rs on Instagram while my last name is ev 0rs, so you can just look up Rob Evans and it'll pop up. And then we have this podcast me, Lauren, Leah, Nelly and Jen Golden. It's called It's Complicated that you girls started it a long time ago and for some reason decided they needed a male perspective on it. So they brought me in and it's great. We have we have so many amazing you being one of them. I mean, the fact that we've had you on it just shows that we're credible.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, I appreciate that. It's a lot of fun. You guys have a fun dynamic.

 

Rob Evors:
It's good because like I said, Jen, Jenn is, you know, now she's in a relationship and she's just moving in and she's in those new stages. I'm single as can be and still trying to figure it out. And Lauren's married with two kids under the age of three. So like, we get to really have you get all of it with our podcast.

 

Dr. Liz:
So it's a lot of fun. You guys do lot of really good topics. I like how you dig in, you bring on experts. I would love to come talk about attachment style, so.

 

Rob Evors:
We.

 

Dr. Liz:
Asked them about that. Thank you so much for being here. This was such a fun conversation. And as always, you are fun to hang out with. So I appreciate.

 

Rob Evors:
You. You too. Good luck in your situation. Ship.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, good luck with you in Texas.

 

Rob Evors:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thanks, Rob, for this podcast hookup and thank you all for hanging out. Unrelatable Relationships unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.