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Dr. Liz:
So when you think about, like the influence of your upbringing on how you show up in romantic relationships, what are some of the correlations that you see there?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
My mom would maybe angry, not talk for a couple of days.

 

Dr. Liz:
So your mom was really loving and nurturing most of the time. But then when she got mad, she would she would pull that away from you. That makes a lot of sense because that actually sounds very similar to this relationship that you're describing that you're recently in of. She was like very loving and affectionate and then would just rip it away from you without notice. That is relational programing for sure.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I think I would try to reject that.

 

Dr. Liz:
You can try. I won't let you, but you can try. This is relatable. Relationships, unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable. Relationships Unfiltered. Today, I'm hanging out with Rob Hill, senior relationship expert and author. We chat about what dating is like as a relationship expert, and we connect over our struggles with emotional unavailability. Rob, thank you for joining us today. I'm so excited. We'll chat with you.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Thank you for having me. Thank you having me. I love your content, so I've been looking forward to this.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you. And same I love yours as well. So I want to talk about today emotional intelligence. And so in terms of when someone maybe is single and they're dating or even in, you know, sometimes we end up in a relationship and there's things that we don't realize right away. And so there's conversations that have to be had. And sometimes that is around maybe somebody lacking emotional intelligence. So we're going to talk about that from multiple angles. When you are dating or when you are looking for a relationship. What are some of the things that are important to you when it comes to like somebody is emotional maturity or even their emotional availability?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Okay. If I can be transparent, I might be giving emotional availability more than oxytocin.

 

Dr. Liz:
It tends to be Your M.O. is emotional availability.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Well, I won't call it that, but it can be summed up that way. You know, but I will. And I'm very transparent about those periods, you know. Right now, I'm in a very open heart and I want love. I'm welcoming back into my world. But there have been times where I was not willing to, let's say, deal with conflict. Right. I would use conflict as a.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
A material point. Right. So so in those times, I recently dated someone who I felt like was emotionally, emotionally unavailable. Well, I'll say this. She was. I learned this from you. Breadcrumbs.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I look at you pulling out all the stops on that one.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes. He's joking when I said I loved the content, but I actually shared that several times. So that experience made me feel like she was emotionally unavailable when in fact she was with Brad coming. And my goal was to not call her out, but just hopefully invite her to a new opportunity. I thought that I really trust in my intentions, and I trusted the space I was trying to hold. So I thought that she, you know, take me up on the opportunity that it would be a safe space for her to kind of let down some of that armor, Express some things that are hard to say, and probably let me know a little bit more about her past. She didn't take the invite initially. So that's why things kind of fizzled out. We'll see.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. And breadcrumbs. So for the listeners that don't know that term, that's like when somebody gives you just enough time or attention to pique your interest or to keep you hooked, but not enough to actually fulfill or meet your emotional needs. And that is a common we see that commonly with with individuals, with like avoidant attachment or as you're saying, who are emotionally unavailable because they give it enough that they are maybe getting the attention that they want, but not so much that they have to be vulnerable or exposed or really invested. It's kind of been my experience with that. When you talk about breadcrumbs being like because it can be it can happen in so many different ways. Like what? What does that look like for you historically when you have felt breadcrumbs? Like, what were you given? But what was still held back?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
There were this like extreme high and then there would be code. So we could spend time, have a great we can have sex, do the whole thing.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And then one argument she'll want to blacken and not want to just block them. Right. And so, like, kind of where she is a couple years younger than me, three. But it would just be. And then she would, like, maybe write me a letter or call me, you know, private and or send me an email and basically kind of restart the cycle. She would say things like, I want us to be in love or I want you to be in love with me. And I've never really had someone say something like that, you know? Especially after nerve wracking her.

 

Dr. Liz:
But I think to your point that that ties into a lot of the emotional unavailability, right? It almost sounds like the fear of intimacy, because it's like really what it sounds like is disorganized attachment style, which I can relate to. So like, I'm hearing like, I have empathy for that experience of especially when you're describing like a weekend together where you're feeling really close and connected. You're you're having sex, you're having intimacy, you're like, all of that feels really good. And then the fear of losing you or losing that. So it's like it sounds like she's like asking for that reassurance of like, love me, don't leave me. And so I guess that would make sense that she probably fears the intimacy of that and fears what that means, like the rejection piece or the losing you that's there.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Actually. And I sensed a lot of that. You know, we would talk about that fear and ways to maybe approach it differently, just abrupt and, you know, kind of like we don't need to do that, You know, if we misunderstand and it's not I don't ever want to talk to you again in my life, you know, but this only I guess more so Brett coming back is like you said. And and then you go cold on that. You're very warm and good morning. And then it's I'm overwhelmed and I can't talk to anyone right now. It's I'm going to come see you and then it's I don't know it's just a lot of I feel like a lot of fulfilled promises as that makes it for sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I can relate to that as well. I'm generally attracted to men with more avoid and attachment styles, and so that can feel like breadcrumbs to me because maybe and I'm also attracted to driven men who are busy. And so that is like the combination of those two, which I mean, I guess there's more like the correlation of those two because probably using that busy lifestyle to avoid. But I know for me that that that is something, as you're describing how she would respond to that. I know that activates me as well when I feel like somebody is giving me maybe their time or attention, but then it's like some but then they get busy. So then it's not very much or it's inconsistent, you know? So maybe part of the time they can show up for me a certain way. But then the other part of the time they can't. And that breadcrumb thing can become like that can be whether they're doing it intentionally or not. It can be a really big mindfuck because you don't know what to expect. Like you don't. And it sounds like that's kind of like what you are experiencing as well. You might get the good morning text, but then you might get the I can't talk to you today.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yeah, and rarely is this not even I can't talk to you today. It's like I'm going back, you know, and it's just like, I don't know. It was one of my first experiences dating someone younger. That's a newer thing for me. But I have. I have. I have a question for you. You describe.

 

Dr. Liz:
Your share. Yes.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
You describe or you ask me how I do it. Emotionally unavailable, Unavailable. People. Right. And you've talked about dealing with people who have that attachment style. I identify with what you're saying. What is it about us that likes these type of people? Why do you try to commit to those type of archetype?

 

Dr. Liz:
So I think that it ties into what I talk a lot about with, like the relational programing. So when I think about my upbringing and I think about the lack of emotional attention or nurturance that I received, and so my being raised by emotionally immature parents and so they weren't able to provide for me the attention or the validation that I needed. And then when I tie in the other aspect that, like my dad worked a lot, he worked multiple jobs often. He was not around very much. And so for me, I think the programing is that that almost signifies masculinity to me. Masculinity in the sense that like a hard worker or a man that's working a lot, it's the protector provider thing, you know? So there's that programing piece. And so also when I've been programed that like I've never really gotten my emotional needs met in that way. So it's just familiar to me. And so it's what I'm drawn to. And I know that that's something definitely in my own healing and the work that I've done that I've tried to become aware of that like I do deserve the time and attention that I desire, but it becomes really easy just to slip into old patterns and just accept the breadcrumbs that you're given.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
It is. So yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
When you think about your relational programing, so when you think about like the influence of your upbringing on how you show up in romantic relationships, what are some of the correlations that you see there?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
My mom would maybe get angry and not talk for a couple of days or very loving, very nurturing, very attentive, but we all process being hurt differently. And we had two different phases of our relationship, one where she was a single mother and one where she was a wife.

 

Dr. Liz:
And.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
The younger side of things, you know, kind of impacted how I handled the older side of things. Clashing with her, clashing with my stepfather, that type of thing. I think that I just grew up really being like a a lover boy like my mom in a lot of I, I remember asking her, can I have a girlfriend? And I remember asking her, can I go buy my girlfriend something for Valentine's Day? Right. Loose. Simple things.

 

Dr. Liz:
So yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Cutting grass and get stuff for a date. And I think, you know, my upbringing, I don't I don't know when you said that like your how did you how did you phrase it.

 

Dr. Liz:
The relational programing piece or the rest.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I don't think that I've, I've, you know, I don't I don't think that I fully understand my relational program.

 

Dr. Liz:
But I mean, that was that insight that to say that. So your mom was really loving and nurturing most of the time, but then when she got mad, she would she would pull that away from you. She would take away that love and nurture, it sounds like, for multiple days at some points. And while, of course, it was probably not done with mal intent or a malicious like with maliciousness, right. Like she probably didn't know how to handle it any differently. But that doesn't matter because the impact was still the impact. And so that makes a lot of sense. Does that actually sounds very similar to this relationship that you're describing that you're recently in of? She was like very loving and affectionate and then would just rip it away from you without notice.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yeah. So that is.

 

Dr. Liz:
Relational programing.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
For sure. I think I would try to reject that.

 

Dr. Liz:
You can try. I won't let you, but you can try.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
To reject that. I don't know my program, but it is what it is. And I do know that certain things have, you know, just kind of impacted me throughout the years. One more question for you. Can I ask you.

 

Dr. Liz:
To ask as many as you like?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes. Yes. when you talk so are you when you say you're single, are you single and dating? Single out of the added is the person wearing.

 

Dr. Liz:
Single and dating or what was the second one.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Or like, like I'm not dating anyone. Like.

 

Dr. Liz:
I'm like, situation ship single, I guess. Okay, so I've been dating somebody for a few months, but that he's busy and he doesn't have a lot of time, so he falls into my relational programing. So as much as I completely adore him and everything about him, that creates friction for sure. But so I would say I am single, I am actively dating. Like there's not commitment there, but there is somebody I have been dating.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Are you having fun or is dating hard?

 

Dr. Liz:
I have fun with him, but the the dating in general, which is part of the reason that I wanted to talk about this topic of the emotional availability and emotional maturity because that and I would imagine you can probably relate to it as well being in the same field that dating I think is harder for us in that way. Our expectations are different. And so then when I find somebody, so this person I've been dating that does can meet me on that level there definitely it's the connection is there and I and I'm really drawn to that and it's hard to find. And so, no, I don't think dating is fun at all. I don't think I don't think there's a lot of people or it's not think there aren't a lot of people that piqued my interest. And so sometimes it can feel really actually demoralizing to be in the dating world. Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
So it I don't think it sucks as bad for me as it is. It is. I hear people describe it, right. But I will say that I'm not having as much fun with it as I would like to. I think that it can be a more fulfilling experience. I think that some things that are disturbing it is. And I was essentially going to ask you, you know, how is your profession impacted your experience? And I think the profession a lot of work that I've chosen and the things and the topics I deal with are extremely impacted. My experience in the Bay Area. So I think that finding certain connections is hard and it makes me want to hold on to the ones that I have for sure. Yeah, you know, I'm not I'm not sure if that's probably right. I'm not sure that I was the best.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, but it sounds like the same thing. Like it's probably harder for you to connect with people for the same reasons that I'm describing. And so then when you do find somebody and going back into the Sabio sexual statement, you know, like that being connected and being turned on through intellectual conversations and through mental stimulation, that's not easy to find. And so, yeah, to to your point, I do believe that my profession highly influences that, that my dating experience.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And so that's the part I think makes it hard and a little less fun because it's like an interview.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, right. Yes. I've been told that people may or may not feel interrogated by my dates with them, but probably the same thing. You can relate to is like we kind of know what to get to. We like we know the things we're looking for in a partner, and we also know the things that might signify red flags. And so even when I'm talking to somebody on a dating app, I'm like so quick to ask like a handful of like, questions that I ask pretty quick. And I'm like, that probably is such a turnoff to just be like, okay, this, this and this. And they're like, Hi, nice to meet you, but I don't want to waste my time. So it's kind of like, get it out of the way, you know?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
So what's a good time saver?

 

Dr. Liz:
Question Well, I'll ask questions about like if they live alone, if they're still legally in a relationship, if they have like their if they have children, what are the ages of their children? I don't like to date people with young children. So those type of things, like I pretty much get out of the way pretty quickly, like cover like pretty quick. But to be fair of, I will usually message with somebody maybe for like 24 hours and then it's like, okay, something is said or done or whatever, or the lack of emotional intelligence, which I probably sound like I have a lack of emotional intelligence by describing how I screen people, but usually that will be like an indicator of, yeah, I really don't like there's not interest to keep going forward. And so what are some of the things that you screen for?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Who a big one I've had to ask is are you still legally married?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
That's a.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thing. That's a big thing.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes, it's bigger than that. Like to be.

 

Dr. Liz:
You and me. Both my friends.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Are bigger like me. And then also, I'm definitely, as you know, if they have children, but I've had a limited dating experience, dating app experience. I was all right for a little while.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay. And then what happened?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I got offered.

 

Dr. Liz:
It wasn't like wasn't a good options, wasn't good conversation. Like, what was the.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I think it was just people on social media and knowing that I was all right.

 

Dr. Liz:
Ah, Is that embarrassing to you?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Not embarrassing, intrusive, like.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I thought, I'm, I'm like, Who told you I could have told you all, you know, and I could have told you my reason. It was just like it was starting to spill over. So people would send me one or two messages. All right? And then next thing you know, they would be on my exam, as that makes sense.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And I get we have to make up profiles so you can see. I mean, that's fine. But I just. I didn't actually meet up with anyone off that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, well, I'm sure you get hit on and on Instagram all the time. Do you use that as a source of dating?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
Which I think and I talk about that a lot. I actually think that Instagram, I've definitely hung out with more people off Instagram than any dating app. And I think that the difference with that is you really get to know their personality and some of these things that we're talking about, like you're seeing what their day to day is like. You're seeing what their personality is like, what their sense of humor is like. I feel like that is often a lot more effective than what we get from a dating app.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
For sure. For sure. But I so I have this approach towards, well, I guess this general philosophy, your day to day would probably change when someone new came into your life. Or would you say.

 

Dr. Liz:
I guess it would probably I would want it to change. I work a lot. And so I if I had a partner, I would want to make space for that. So I would probably change slightly and then it would probably also change because so the individual I've been dating, like we would go do things where like on a weekend I'm probably just going to sit at my desk and work versus if I'm dating somebody, we're going to go do something and be active.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Right? Right. So I always look at it like I, I was asked this question a couple of weeks ago. It was like a group of young ladies. And one of them was saying she felt unattractive because she did not have a job and she didn't want to date Tyler, etc. And I was explaining to her that I certain people, it's not about what you have when they meet you because they have the ability to create things with you. No.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I have been trying to find that balance in dating to where I feel like we have this just genuine, unstoppable ability to create life together. And that might sound like dreamy, but that's what I want, right? Something that can be dreamy sometimes. Sure. And I'm okay with that. I'm kind of getting on a tangent now, but to to, to, to essentially bring it back. Some of the questions I ask more so about the person's thought process and what they see for themselves as how they view family and their attachments, their ask, their relationship with money and their beliefs about it. I will ask, because we're all, we're all super consumed with work. So I want to know what people will do when they're not chasing what. Sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
And what are some of the answers that you're looking for?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Well, I'm not looking for an answer. I have my own answer.

 

Dr. Liz:
What is your answer?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I'm going to be a landscape photographer and I was just going to travel to different places. And so I've been writing for a very long time and I'm going to write I want to write 50 books. But there was a point in my career where I want to stop and I want to repeat used to just be and I want to travel to remote places and I want to do a show with an NGO. I just want to explore, I want to try food and I want to do that with a partner potentially. All right. This is not something I want to be doing every day, but this is something that I would do 100% for $0. Sure. Because I know the communities I want to share these photos with. I know the communities are on its phones different cultures to all of these things is about going to experience and kind of bring back. But also I would be like, no, no, stop serving people. I would just be more available. I think sometimes the pursuit of money can sometimes impact the availability to do what we're actually here to do is help people improve their lives, help people enjoy their lives, help people have deeper, more fulfilling relationships. I mean, sometimes I feel like I may be too busy to always practice that right now.

 

Dr. Liz:
I can relate to that for sure. And as humans, we are designed, we are wired for connection. And I can really what you're saying really resonates with me that I stay busy because I don't have the partnership, I don't have connection. And what you said earlier about, like you're you're in a place where you want to make space for that. I can definitely connect to that. You know, I've been divorced for about three and a half years and that the first couple years it was like it was just kind of getting used to that and it didn't feel like that big of a deal. But I would say for sure, like over the last year, there's it's there is a loneliness that I didn't expect it to come up. I am like, I'm very independent. That is how I would describe myself, Like I am defined by that in a lot of ways. My my independence and that, you know, not needing a partner, but at the same time, like I want a partner and I want that connection. And so I'm aware of my emotional unavailability and how I use work. It's like it's this juxtaposition between, right, like I am using it. I want connection, but I'm not getting connection. So I'm using this to avoid. But it's stopping me from getting connection. You know, it's the vicious cycle for sure. You can relate.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
To 100%. That's why I said I might be the emotionally unavailable one because I hide behind parenthood and I have behind work.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And you, you have a teenage son as well?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes, I have a 14 year old out of full custody. So he's with me every day and we spend a great deal of time. And then I coach a basketball. And so I'm very involved in his life and I definitely use that as a match sometimes for my just not pursue of a relationship, you know, or emotional availability. So it's extremely important for me now to change that language and say I'm welcoming something different because before I was just I'll do that later. I'll fall in love later, I'll try that later. I'll, I'll, I'll do that when I make X amount or when I do this. And what I found is that, you know, you can Ricci's goes a lot faster than you expect it, but I'm never going to lose my desire for love. I'm never going to lose my desire for connection. And so in the question, some of it is filtering, but some of it is like, I'm not necessarily looking for an answer. I'm trying to get to know a person and I want to get to know somebody. I who who knows what they want, right? Because I feel like I know what I want. But, you know, it's it doesn't I've asked people hundreds of questions and still feel like I don't know them.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. What do you feel like for yourself? So if you're identifying as potentially emotionally unavailable, like what would have what specific likely would have to change in order for you to. So you're you're speaking it into existence, like I want to create space for this. But what would actually have to happen behaviorally to make space for it?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Well, I think that there's what would have to happen behaviorally to make space for.

 

Dr. Liz:
God, I'm dating you with all these tough questions. You had no idea. I'm so sorry.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I love your questions. I love you. So I think a large part is not it's an identity thing. So I became a parent at a very young age. I was 19, 20, and I had this fear that I would suck and I would fail. And I thrust myself into overcoming that. And I put a lot of stock in being a good father. And there's a lot of people around me who have different ideas of that. And I've tried to live up to of them a lot. It can be so it would take some reshaping that I'm still me. I also am a father and I don't have to live under the some 809 year old 19 year old fear. Right. Because I have actual experience like 15 years that that are proof that that fear was false. Also, it would take some identity switching in the sense that I wasn't always thinking of myself as I'm going to grow up and be a husband One day. I see young ladies, you know, thinking about being wives and maybe imagining different things. And I understand a lot of that is programing. But I just started to think of myself as a husband or as somebody who should be a life partner before this, I have always thought of myself as the fun guy, for lack of a better word. Yeah, because I was pushing so much of the seriousness down the line. So a lot of this is just identity source. And I was pushed into serious things out of fear. I would say I only had to one thing at a time prioritizing. Exactly. And then also the tangible things is maybe join in some dating apps, maybe actually take some pictures in sharing my face on social media.

 

Dr. Liz:
yes, that's a novel thought. When you do, it gets quite the reaction. Rob So you should consider. Yeah, I didn't do that.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Maybe I should try these things right? And I try to live in Bruce Wayne mode, but ultimately it's really just lying in the, you know, you want to be loved. You have a great deal of to give. And I think that you should enjoy how that process unfolds. And I think for so long I needed it to be perfect. I don't want to fail in front of my audience. I had an extremely public breakup and I was on blogs and TMZ. It just was like, I'm going to go into my small little world, you know? So I was just redefining, you know, all of these experiences and what's important because I don't necessarily want to be alone. I don't have a fear of that, but I do have a fear of settling for unfulfilled relationships is to have company for sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
I can relate to the identity piece a lot because that has been, you know, being raised with a father that did not show up for me in the way that I needed. I definitely have had this issue with men, I guess, for probably a very long time. And so that kind of became part of my identity. Like the whole I don't I don't need no man, you know, that that was so important to me. And so it's just been over the last couple of years that I that for me to reframe that in my identity, that it felt like such weakness to even like I would I allowed men to be part of my life very in a very limited capacity. But for me to really say like I want a partner, like I want somebody to do life with that has been an identity shift for me for sure. Because, you know, and after my divorce, I'm like, I'm never getting married again, which I stand by that I'm not getting married again. However, I would still like a person to do life with. I would like a person to come home to after work and things like that. But for sure has been an identity shift as well because there's like this cringe in me of like I pride myself on being independent. So the thought of that which is like so hypocritical because so much of my work which, you know that's I talk about that a lot, that I am still human as a relationship expert, I'm still human. And so I can struggle with both. I can do that.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
But isn't that the beauty of this work is we get to we get to be complex a lot. We do it. Yeah, we to not have it all figured out. We get to still have some dynamics that are still sharp and in some curveballs. Right. But that's why I love it. Yeah. You know, because I'm not pretending. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Exactly. Exactly. And that's this platform for sure.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Is it makes you relatable as I'm looking at.

 

Dr. Liz:
You.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I appreciate what I see. What makes you a content first? A tangible for me because there's actual lived experience.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And I think to me more than anything, I want to learn from the guy who had some painful breakups. I went through some things and it wasn't perfect, but he ultimately figured it out or understands why things happened. But I don't I don't know if I'm going to learn as much from somebody who just it was perfect, you know, for the rest of my life when I was in high school. And it all worked out. And that wasn't necessarily my experience. I was a military kid, you know, So I had a lot of interruptions. So naturally, having these as an adult and dating in this space, I just appreciate the fact that I'm complex. I'm not only showing up fully, but I was going to say, I guess my last question. But sure, I have several.

 

Dr. Liz:
So in truth.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
What makes a woman feel safe.

 

Dr. Liz:
Is that were the questions ending or is there more to it?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes. And there's a two part. Okay. Do women ask themselves, does he feel safe with me?

 

Dr. Liz:
Are okay. Beautiful. Follow up on the first part. I was talking to a friend recently and I was I was describing to him that that the importance of me feeling safe in a relationship like that. So often I would say my masculine energy dominates versus my feminine energy. So I know I show up more in my masculine energy versus in my feminine. I know that's a big part of that is about safety. And so if I don't feel I've learned part of my programing again is that I have to show up with that dominance in order to stay safe is what I perceived. And so when I was talking to this friend recently, he gave me a really good insight on that, that I'm going to show up with that masculine energy until a man can show me that he's going to use his power, his dominance, his strength. I mean, biologically speaking a man has more strength. So until he can show me that he's using that in my protection versus to harm me, he's using it as a way to keep me safe and then when that happens, I am happy to live in my feminine energy and I want to live in my feminine energy. I want I want that to be the majority of my existence. But I have to know that the masculine energy that is being sent my way is for my safety and not my harm. And a lot of that, again ties into my childhood because the masculine energy that I grew up with was to my harm. And so that energy scares me. Unless I can see that it's safe. And then so I would say, what? What helps a woman feel safe to know that when a man is showing up in in dominance or in masculinity, it's being done as a protector, but that he's also willing to show his feminine energy. And so he is willing to be vulnerable and he's willing to let his guard down and share what's going on for him internally, but also receive what's going on for me internally without making me feel like I'm a problem for sharing that. So that's your first part of your answer? The second part of your answer. Our second part of your question. That's a brilliant question. And I guess I want to turn that to you. I would say I would say that's a really fair question, because I probably do spend more time worried about if I feel safe than if the man that I'm dating feels safe and that thank you for bringing that to my awareness that that is a good insight. What does help a man to feel safe? Like what? What comes from a woman that creates that safety? obviously talking heterosexual relationships.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Yes. So the question kind of stems from this. The conversation I was having with like, you know, a group of men. And we are still figuring out what makes us feel safe when you're constantly taught to be on edge, to be the more aggressive one, to be, the quicker to the punch, to be the you sleep when I open the you know, the it's this non stop, right? Yeah. You like is it safe walking on the curb. Right. Right. For the cause. Right. Yes. Now naturally I'm doing this because I care about you and you're right. But is it, is it safe? Right. And who should I go to for safety as a man? So it's really complex when you ask asking what makes a man safe? Because I did this very intensive workshop. It was like four days and I came out of this with this. I was like this. And I explain. So there is this exercise. You sit in a chair apart and sits right in front of you face to face, and they ask you, What do you want? And they ask you for like 90 seconds to 2 minutes and they do it just like, What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? So you can say a house? I mean, it's a new job, a car, a big family, $2 billion. Like you can just keep naming things. Right? And I'm getting to a point. But after a minute or so, you run out of things to name as far as desires. Right. And your desire becomes extremely succinct. And I want it to feel safe. So it's like a larger question, which you kind of threw my way, but I know respect feels good, right? But earning people's respect doesn't always feel safe. I know fear is good, but exposing yourself and being vulnerable and transparent doesn't always feel safe. I know that wanting to earn someone's admiration for your leadership and for your approach to things is awesome. But I know that being vulnerable about your vision and where you are and your process can sometimes feel unsafe.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
So what I do and just offering the question is hopefully I think that the brilliance of women, if we consider that question, will will maybe just give us a larger window at being able to identify what would make us feel safe. Because I think a lot of the time, you know, I don't have time to actually stop and think about that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And safety looking so different, I guess. I wonder. Looking so different. I what's that.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
I was about to say, I mean I think asking for to say to yourself.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure, sure. And I wonder though like when I think about, you know, even the most recent relationship that I've been in and I know I know what's been translated that makes them not feel safe. And that's when and I hear this a lot with my couples, clients and stuff is maybe when a woman comes across as overly critical or demanding or doesn't point out what he is doing well, how he is showing up then. And that's what I mean about the difference in safety is that we all want to feel physically and emotionally safe. But I do think that the emotional safety piece does look different amongst the genders. But I think I mean, it's yeah, that's a good question and a good thing to get my wheels turning.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Well, because we always say, you know, we want man to be transparent. We want men to be vocal about how they feel. We want men to be expressive, these things. And for a woman, she would need to feel safe to offer those things.

 

Dr. Liz:
Completely and that it becomes that cycle, right, that we both have to take a risk in. As you're saying, we have to maybe both feel unsafe temporarily to open up the space to then allow each other to feel safe. And then I really do think safety breeds safety. And so when we are women, we allow ourselves to be vulnerable enough to allow that other person to feel safe. They often will do the same. But so much easier said than done.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And reality is that no matter how much trust we build, life is going to throw us some unforeseen circumstances that can shake either of our foundations.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes, it's.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Our job to still maintain a partnership in unsafe moments. And to me, that is, you know, the the challenge, which is I don't know how to make life 100% safe, but I do know how to survive it. Sure. I do know how to thrive in it. You know, and I think love is sometimes, like you said, just being willing to step outside of that own personal idea of safety and and, you know, risk being exposed for a greater opportunity. That is how I see it. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think the bigger picture of safety is even like, yeah, you're right. Life is going to happen and we are going to have ruptures in our dynamic. But the willingness to repair and to know, going back to your earlier point, that if there is conflict, that doesn't have to mean it's the end. And I know for me, like as I've been working, you know, doing my healing over the last couple of years over on this topic specifically, that's something that creates safety for me, is that if there is conflict, I have to know that that doesn't mean it's the end that like now, everything we've been working on is out the window because of this one piece of conflict. But if anything that just puts my guards right back up and I'm like, I'm not going to let you in. So, yes, great conversation, Rob. I appreciate your time. I appreciate your wisdom and your insights. Where can people find you besides on the dating app, since you're not there and they'll make sure not to look for your face, because that's certainly not on social media, But where can you be found?

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
You can find me around here saying you're pretty much on any platform all the way down to website, which is under construction right now. But that would be Rob has seen your book scout. Yes, I will be. I thank you to Instagram, Twitter, all the places and you'll be able to find me in person this summer. I'll be touring, so I'll put out more information there.

 

Dr. Liz:
Very cool. Now be on your website or on your socials when you look website.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
And social I'll blast off. All right.

 

Dr. Liz:
Cool. Well, thank you again, Rob. I really appreciate you being here.

 

Rob Hill Sr.:
Thank you for having me.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thanks, Rob, for letting me dig into your relational programing. And thank you all for hanging out. Unrelatable Relationships unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.