Relatable podcast
Episode 23: relationship red flags with nick thompson
Dr. Liz hangs out with Nick Thompson, Mental Health Advocate, from Love is Blind (S2) to chat all about red flags in dating and relationships. Dr. Liz and Nick discuss the difference between objective and subjective red flags, including what to look out for and how to handle being faced with these red flags. They also get open and honest about their own red flags… and challenge each other to consider how their own red flags might be impacting their current dating lives. You won’t want to miss this very relatable episode about being aware of red flags in others… AND facing your own red flags.
transcript:
Nick Thompson:
I don't really like talking on the phone. I'd prefer to, like, either be in person or even on a video. So there's like some, you know, visual stimulation to to build that connection. But yeah, that's something I don't like talking on the phone. I don't even think it's fair sometimes to the other person.
Dr. Liz:
I can relate to that. Someone recently who I started like a few weeks ago started talking to and that he his question was like, can we jump on a phone call? And I was like, Can we not like. Is there any other option? Needless to say, that conversation don't last all that long. This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships unfiltered. Today, I'm hanging out with my friend Nick Thompson from Love is Blind Season two. Nick and I chat all about red flags, including our own red flags and even possible red flags. We've seen each other. Hello, my friend. I have missed you in our Instagram lives that we have taken quite the hiatus from.
Nick Thompson:
Think we retired them temporarily at least. Right. It's been a. You've been too busy traveling the world to do any Instagram lives.
Dr. Liz:
It's very true. And you've been too busy saving the world to do Instagram. So here we are.
Nick Thompson:
I would say trying my best, putting my best foot forward to save the world.
Dr. Liz:
But I know that that is your heart and your passion for sure. So we're going to talk about some red flags, which we have done on one of our lives before. And coming from the angle of red flags that maybe historically you have been attracted to and drawn to, and then we'll kind of take it from there. Talk about some universal red flags, objective red flags. When you think about like red flags, what comes to mind?
Nick Thompson:
So when I think about red flags, the first thing that comes to mind is I like go back and I'm like, what are my patterns? Because I think like, obviously everyone's going to have some red flags, you know, quote unquote, whatever you want to say about that. But for me, it's like when I look back at past relationships, what are the the patterns that I see? And a lot of them are actually my behaviors. And so I I'm very I get a lot of value out of helping people, which oftentimes attracts me to people that need help. And that's in friendships, that's in, you know, who I choose to, you know, have relationships with in my family. And, you know, of course, with significant others. So I think, like, that's one for me. I also have pretty strong intuition. And sometimes I think it kind of like clouds my judgment a little bit because like, I'm feeling something that I can't quite explain. And then I think to just what I know I need helps me like say, okay, these red flags are what I don't need. So like, for example, like I need stability. So like it would be a red flag for me know, and in an unstable relationship, you know, under no circumstances like that would be completely like a no go for me. So I would say that's something. What about you? What's your. But I mean, besides the biggest red flag of not even wanting to date.
Dr. Liz:
Get out of here. You're not wrong, but you got here. I like the angle, though, that you're taking that from in terms of that is like really unique that you're when we're talking about red flags and you're like, let me check in check in on what my role is in these dynamics. Like, how am I showing up? What is it bringing out in me? And that's kind of how you're looking at what the red flag is, which I think makes a lot of sense because I talk with my clients a lot about like when we get triggered, our reaction to it often triggers the other person and then their reaction triggers us back. And so for you to look at it from the lens of like what is my role in that? Because that's going to give you the greatest insight into what are those behaviors that are going on that is creating disregulation for me, that's creating my nervous system to become active. And so for me, like I that's when we look at it from that angle. And I think you and I have talked about this, but that I am attracted to busy men and I'm attracted to driven men and ambitious men. And so that is what I'm drawn to. But what comes along with that is there's not a lot of free time. And I pride myself on being like independent and not needy. And all of those things which hence the not needing to date anyone but what I am and you know, talking with someone like I actually do like attention. And so the lack of attentiveness is a red flag for me. But to be clear, and we should shouldn't.
Nick Thompson:
That be self-sabotaging though, too, because you're seeking out the people that don't have the time to give you the attention. But yeah.
Dr. Liz:
I mean, that's the whole thing when you're saying our roles in it. But, but that is a subjective red flag, right? So like somebody's not having the time that I need based some arbitrary amount of time that I need. Like that's not a universal red flag. That is just something I have to be aware of. And yeah, clearly I'm sabotaging the same way. When you seek out people, you have to take care of that, you know.
Nick Thompson:
I know, I know. Yeah, that's another one that just popped in my head while you were talking to is I actually, I do seek out like, professional, you know, whatever professional is successful all women to and one of the things is is I, I like feeling equal with my partner and I'm, you know, relatively despite not having a job right now, I'm relatively advanced in my career in marketing. And so, you know, having someone that understands that almost in the sense of of you, but then at the same time, it does end up the same way, right? Where it's they're busy with their job. I'm busy with my job. And then, you know, we're both tired at the end of the day because we're working all day and you know, that that can kind of be its own toxic cycle that you get yourself into.
Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. And I was just talking to a client about that this week that he's like he's driven to he's attracted to driven women. But that like she stressed out. He stressed out and then it feels like instead of doing life together, you're both kind of on your own journeys. And so there's a disconnection. And I can relate to that because like when I am talking to somebody, but I have I, I work until nine, 10:00 at night most days of the week. And so I'm saying on one hand, like, I want your time and attention. But then when he's like, Hey, can I call you? And I'm like, No, I'm busy. Like.
Nick Thompson:
You should be happy. He texted you. And he's not one of those that just calls. That's the I.
Dr. Liz:
Don't say all that. okay. You both.
Nick Thompson:
I get personally offended when someone calls me without.
Dr. Liz:
Asking for. That's your red flag.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, well, maybe that is a red flag. Yeah, that is actually that is something I do. I do know I need to be better. I don't really like talking on the phone. I'd prefer to, like, either be in person or even on a video. So there's, like some, you know, visual stimulation to, to build that connection. But yeah, that's something like I don't like talking on the phone. I don't even think it's fair sometimes to the other person.
Dr. Liz:
To do people get upset by that.
Nick Thompson:
They have Yeah. And and not even like I'm just understanding it. So then I'm like, you know, I got to be more self-aware about it and I got to understand that just because I don't like talking on the phone doesn't mean it doesn't provide value to someone else.
Dr. Liz:
And yes, but I can relate to that. Someone recently who I started like a few weeks ago started talking to and that he his question was like, can we jump on a phone call? And I was like, Can we not like, is there any other option? Needless to say, that conversation don't last all that long. But that was my first thought. I'm like, and to your point, when there's like, not the facial expressions to read, he can't read the body language. You can't read like all of that. I feel like that makes it even more uncomfortable. If it's like a business phone call, fine, because we're not looking for all that nuance. But when you're getting to know someone that's different, that's.
Nick Thompson:
Funny you say that because now I think about it when it is business, I prefer a phone call because I don't want to be on video. Like, it's so weird. It is.
Dr. Liz:
Weird, right? But when you're trying to get to know someone, try to fill them out, especially if you are big into like your intuition and like you get a sense for people through their nonverbals, then that would be really hard to even gauge their interest and to gauge like, are they attentive when you're talking? And can they are they demonstrating validation or empathy even in their facial expressions when you're talking like all of that is really important?
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I totally agree. And that's not even just like when you're when you're early dating, that's like the whole time. Like you have to have that connection. I think it's super important to be able to build that. And when you're so it sounds like you maybe have been dabbling on the dating that.
Dr. Liz:
boy, have I been dabbling on the dating. I have been pretending to dabble on the dating. I have been seeing somebody like often on but then also like not exclusively but then also on the dating apps. But I mean, you know how that goes.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah. I will never do it again I don't think.
Dr. Liz:
What's your plan for meeting somebody?
Nick Thompson:
You know, I don't have one.
Dr. Liz:
I like through social media or organically or is that just like, let.
Nick Thompson:
Me tell you, I have people all around the world trying to slide into my DMS these days.
Dr. Liz:
Well, well, well.
Nick Thompson:
And yeah, it's, it's maybe it'll be that way, but right now it's like I'm, when I'm out and stuff, I'll meet people, but you know, it's not like, I don't know, it's just weird. It's weird to try and navigate that because you don't know like who's interested in and you as a person. And I know I think you talk about this with Clayton, too, but like, it's hard to navigate, like who's interested in and you know, me as a person who is interested in, you know, walking around town, who's interested in and, you know, the cloud, I guess, for lack of a better word, I don't really know how much clout there's going to be, but it's it's a concern. You know, it's it's tough to sort of navigate that and think about it. And, you know, I've met, you know, a couple of people in real life, and I you know, would you want to go to just last night? Would you like to go on a date? And I'm like, I'm sorry. No, like, I'm not dating right now. So it's like, yeah.
Dr. Liz:
Like they know, like.
Nick Thompson:
I'm direct.
Dr. Liz:
But I mean, like, there's nothing that would make you interested. Like, you just feel like in this stage in your life, you're just not. So it's not even about. Go ahead.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, it's hard to say, because if you think about it, like, if the right person comes up to you quick in a way. Well, I feel I feel like you proactively don't do it. And so I'm I'm open to it. Like, I feel like if someone came up to you in a bar, like, you might be offended. Is that is that fair?
Dr. Liz:
Why are you talking to me? I'm not unfriendly in that way, but yes, I would probably be extremely disinterested. So glad I'm setting off that vibe. That's clearly what people are picking up. So you are open to it. So if it was somebody who like pique your interest, who maybe didn't have these red flags, you would.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. And I know now that when it comes to to meeting someone like, take your time, get to know them, I hope they get to know you. And I think too, like when I look at red flags from from the perspective of like these are my non-negotiables, like one that I learned, which was really what? So I'm introverted, which people never believe that because I can speak publicly and and, you know, have a conversation. People think introverts are like the creeps in the corner at the party, but we're actually the creeps in the corner of the party having a very real conversation about stuff that's going on in the world.
Dr. Liz:
Intellectual foreplay, indeed, that is.
Nick Thompson:
There you go. You posted about that the other day?
Dr. Liz:
Sure.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah. So I noticed I dated an introvert, and this was a while ago. This was like five years ago. And that it's not a red flag, that they're an introvert, but it's a red flag for me because I have to have someone who's extroverted and will like to get me in social situations because otherwise, like, I'll just I won't put myself in them.
Dr. Liz:
interesting. So if there's somebody if they're too close to your personality, that would be a subjective red flag for you that like this is probably not going to work because we're too similar. And so we're not going to get the balance that we need.
Nick Thompson:
I completely yeah, that's exactly what I mean. And I think too, like when I was the extroverted one in that relationship and it was crazy for me because I've never been that in a relationship before and I'm just like, we've been in all weekend. Maybe we should go do something, maybe we should talk to other people. So I think it kind of just become.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and I can completely relate to that in terms of like my opposite needs to be somebody who's like calm and go with the flow and all of those things. I am definitely introverted as well, and that part doesn't bother me like as much. I don't necessarily need somebody extroverted, but I agree that there needs to be a balance in how we're spending our time. But that is for me, a subjective red flag would be somebody who is like too high energy, too high strung. That would never like that. Would you?
Nick Thompson:
Two would just be do you think you too would just be like just constantly bubbling up anxieties and each other.
Dr. Liz:
Constantly creating conflict, That's for sure. Right. There's something to be said about I'm aware of the parts of my personality that I need to work on. I'm aware of like I'm aware of my triggers, I'm aware of my reactivity, I'm aware of all of that. But to have a partner who can also be aware of it and sensitive to it, and not that they're excusing it or that they're not, that they're allowing disrespect, like there's no boundaries. But I need somebody who can be sensitive to to times when maybe I do get worked up in a way, like maybe it's over something that I don't need to be worked up over. And it's not that I need them again to excuse that behavior, but I need them to be patient and sensitive to that. And it's so funny because my my ex, Richard, who you know as well, like he he that's what he does so well and like, I know that that is the balance I need is just somebody who's patient.
Nick Thompson:
Right. Right. Well, and I think like, you know, that's similar to an introvert thing. Like not everyone has to be super patient, but you need them to be super patient. And that's a green flag.
Dr. Liz:
Right? Right.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah.
Dr. Liz:
So what do you. go ahead.
Nick Thompson:
I have one question for you. So what are some of your areas for improvement? I forget exactly how you ordered it, but.
Dr. Liz:
Some of your chatter that I'm aware of. Well, I can be an asshole at times, and I'm aware of that. So that is something that I'm working on when I feel like when I feel rejected, when I feel when my feelings are hurt, which is hard for me to say because as you and I have talked a lot about in so many of our conversations, our upbringings did not create the environment for us to be able to express feelings. And so because I struggled to do that, I struggled to say like, my feelings are hurt, or that's upsetting me because I feel in those moments I feel weak or needy or like, I'm being stupid, right? So instead of just saying that hurt my feelings, I often will get feisty and so I will get kind of like condescending or I'll get passive aggressive. And I'm very aware of it. Like, I know I'm sarcastic, I know I can be snarky, I know all of those things. And like, I think that's what I'm working on is being aware of when my body is having that reaction. Like, that's just because they did something to hurt me does not mean I need to hurt them back. And right now I'm working on.
Nick Thompson:
That is I fight that every single day because I used to be that way. And I too, I am snarky, I am witty, I am sarcastic, and I can sting you without even thinking about it. And I used to do that a lot like people would. You know, it's funny because, like, I think most people now, if you ask them that know me, they would like describe me as very nice, like very caring, very empathetic, very understanding and five, six years ago before like going to therapy and learning how to, like, regulate a little bit, man, I could sting people and I would be so me and I'd be good at it. And I would just be like, good at it from the perspective of if you want to be sarcastic and witty. Right? And then I would get like obsessed with revenge if somebody wronged me and I would play the long game. Like I think some of the things I did in my twenties and I'm like, Jeez, who is that person now?
Dr. Liz:
And I can relate to that. I feel like I have when I was visiting friends in Virginia a couple of days ago, like we had a situation with somebody. Like it was really ridiculous, but like it worked. Everybody up and it was it was a stranger and it was this conflict that they started, but everyone got worked up over it, and that's what I was telling them like the ten years ago me would have handled that so much differently. And so, like, I'm aware of that. I'm and it was funny, I was telling Richard the story last night at dinner and he was like, my God, if you were in your twenties. And that happened. I know. I was trying to tell them that like, I know so I know I've come like, so far in that. But at the same time I think I've just gone where maybe would be really like explosive and over the top prior. Now it's just kind of more covert and asshole, but it's progress.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, it's.
Dr. Liz:
Progress. Progress, but it doesn't feel that way to the person who's receiving it. Right? Right, exactly. Them.
Nick Thompson:
Exactly. That's the truth. The other I saw this the other day and it's kind of what you're saying right here. If you are in a situation and you see yourself behaving different, better, I would, let's say better than you did or you would have previously, like that's progress even if it's not perfect. So that's what I would suggest.
Dr. Liz:
I, I agree.
Nick Thompson:
Somewhere. Somewhere in your.
Dr. Liz:
But yeah.
Nick Thompson:
It's somewhere near forties or fifties you'll.
Dr. Liz:
Completely go, it's hard, It was fast but I'll be like way more toned down so. Right. Yeah. What do you think are some, like universal red flags when you think of like maybe a friend is talking about somebody they just met or, you know, you see stuff online. What are some of those red flags that you're like, okay, abort mission.
Nick Thompson:
You there are so many that I, I don't. Okay. So this is I think I might have told you this before, but people come to me for relationship advice. And it's so funny to me. I mean, like, I give marriage advice, like all this stuff, you know, that people find very helpful and what that brings and this is in relationships is like people don't recognize their toxic patterns and they don't recognize that like, you know, someone's like love bombing. I think there's a fine line. I think that's a massive red flag. I think that you can toe the line of what's acceptable to to to engage, like what's an acceptable engagement or acceptable things to say and do and sacrifices to make. But if you love bomb someone and I think it's just awful because it really just sets an unrealistic expectation of what this relationship is going to be like. So I think that's a huge, huge, huge red flag.
Dr. Liz:
Can you define can you define love bombing for people who don't know?
Nick Thompson:
Yeah. So love bombing is when you basically overcompensate on nice things that you say and do for someone at the beginning to make them sort of lull into this false sense of security that this is what the relationship is going to be like. And ultimately, like that's a manipulation tactic to get you to like them and get you to date them without actually wanting to follow through on it, is that they're.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah, no valid.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I remember like, yeah, another obvious Well there's the obvious ones right There's any kind of abuse verbal physical, not red flag like giant red flags but I think you know, some of the other ones that people have to be aware of is I don't know if it's not feeling like a priority, but, you know, if someone isn't giving, if you're wondering if somebody likes you, that should probably be a red flag in a lot of instances, because if this person isn't engaging you in the way that you want to be engaged, no matter if this is the first date or a year in, if you're not getting the type of engagement that you want, if you're not getting the type of love, language and attention that you want, like I think those are red flags that people tend to ignore. But, you know, and a lot of times can probably be fixed with communication. But I think those are things that get people kind of like sleepwalking into a relationship that they really shouldn't be in and really isn't meant for them.
Dr. Liz:
And is often part of their relational programing. Because if they're used to not getting their emotional needs met, if they're used to not being a priority, maybe growing up they had neglectful, emotionally neglectful parents or whatever the case, then that is, they're accustomed to that. So then it's easy to fall into that. And I know for me when I talk about being attracted to busy men like my dad worked multiple jobs. He was never around. He was always working. Like I'm aware that that was the template that was kind of provided of like a man works a lot. A man is a hard worker. And so, like, that is what I find to be like masculine and attractive because that was what was instilled as a template. But there's also this other piece of it that, like men also can be nurturing and attentive and they can all of these things that society kind of box boxes them out of, but that we we need we need that as part of the relationship as well. And so I agree that we can end up in these relationships with these red flags. However you want to look at that of not getting our needs met. But it's also because we are so used to not getting our needs met. And that's I think that's so true.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, that is so true. I think. What do you think are some of the like really big red flags that people and maybe some of the ones that people, you know, like I said, sleepwalk right past.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah I first of all I agree the universal ones any type of abuse or severe manipulation, belittling demeaning like all of those are definitely universal like objective red flags. But I think the ones that people tend to look past are maybe the more covert manipulation that they're not really catching on to it. And actually, I wanted to ask you about because I posted about breadcrumbs the other day, so breadcrumbs being defined as so that when somebody gives you just enough time or attention or affection to keep your interest, to keep you hooked, but not enough to meet your needs. So they use it to keep drawing you back in. But I wanted to ask you specifically about this, because I know you identify with an avoidant attachment style, and I was getting a lot of comments on on that post about how I with that post, I am I'm basically like demonizing or like not having empathy for the avoidant attachment. And while I know that that's not what I'm posting because it's somebody who is even with a void in attachment, but that's a breadcrumb.
Nick Thompson:
Are they associating that to bread crumbs.
Dr. Liz:
Because of the fact that somebody who's avoidant might do their best to give attention? But if it feels too overwhelming, they might pull back, you know, like that bread crumbs and have avoidant guys do it. But that is then that knowing that you identify with that and also knowing that that is of course not at all what I'm doing. And, and if anything.
Nick Thompson:
You could get canceled for saying the sky is blue these days. So I would.
Dr. Liz:
Totally but also it did make me kind of read back through the post to think, okay, if this is even if one person is perceiving it this way, what again, what is my role in how I'm presenting this that I am maybe making it seem like I'm being insensitive or intolerant to a certain attachment style, which I would never do because I identify with the most chaotic attachment style.
Dr. Liz:
So I'm just looking for like grace and patience from people. I'm not out here judging anyone. All right. So with that being said, as an avoidant, do you relate to bread crumbs or is that.
Nick Thompson:
So now that you say that like in bread. So I'm not deliberately ever breadcrumb ing someone I, I had those times I'm past those times though that Nick is not coming back but I, I feel like I accidentally do it sometimes almost out of a fear of rejection. So if I like someone and I'm texting with them or, or trying to make plans, you know, I try very hard to be direct about it, but also not be overbearing and also like try to be representative of of myself. So like, I have lots of times where I just don't look at my phone for a while. And so, you know, if I happen to see a text like, let's say right away the moment it comes in, because I'm on my phone or it's in front of me or whatever, sometimes I will actively, like not respond right away, not to breadcrumb, but to level set the expectation that that's not what I'm doing. But I could see that being perceived as bread coming. Secondly, when I am I mean, I just breadcrumb to my friends, we were going to have a guys night tonight and nobody said anything about it all day. And I was like, Well, I'm not going to ask because I don't want to get the answer. I don't want it. Whatever it is, I don't want. Yes, I don't want no. So so I just avoided it.
Dr. Liz:
And what happened?
Nick Thompson:
We're going tomorrow instead.
Dr. Liz:
Who ended up reaching out? What are your friends?
Nick Thompson:
All right. So I actually decided to do it right before we started here today.
Dr. Liz:
Okay.
Nick Thompson:
And then I got the texts that we should do it tomorrow because it's actually that's why I keep looking outside. It's storming pretty bad here. There's a tornado watch.
Dr. Liz:
gosh. Okay. So then how do you figure that? That is breadcrumbs. Your friends, then? Because you did that you were responsive to be?
Nick Thompson:
Yes, I wasn't responsive. And then I was like, I'm not going to respond. And then I forced myself to because I'm like, this is stupid. Like, it's not rejection, it's not. And you do that. I think I feel like I do that with dating sometimes. Like even if I'm clear and I'm like, I'd like to have a second date with you. Like, okay, cool, great. Well, that's planet. Okay, what about this? And then you don't get a response or you do get a response and it's like vague, like that kind of, you know, I feel like that can kind of exhibit breadcrumbs, I guess, for lack of a better term.
Dr. Liz:
Sure. Because it's kind of like still keeping you interested, but it's not really fully committing to anything.
Nick Thompson:
Right. Right. And so my question for you is, with this on again, off again guy, are you two breadcrumbs in each other or how does the on again off again keep happening.
Dr. Liz:
From each other? Well, this is interesting. I am not read here. I am very clear with my feelings towards him. He has been avoiding attachment style as well. So I think that he has the tendency to inadvertently breadcrumb. I don't I know his heart and he's not doing it intentionally. But for somebody who comes from a background of abandonment issues, any form of of that is going to feel like rejection or create a fear of abandonment. And so then that does it is triggering to me, even if I can identify like that, I know that's not as hard and he's not doing it intentionally, but I think that's also where I started to think like, okay, I can see that's where the avoidant attachment style where like this behavior becomes more common for them. But then back to my other point, it's like, okay, but having awareness around it and then intention not engaging in it like that is how we start to shift our attachment styles.
Nick Thompson:
Right? So do you feel like he's aware that that's his attachment style? Do you feel like he works on it, he wants to work on it, or is he just kind of like I am who I am and take it or leave it? Because that's a lot of men. A lot of men are like, I am who I am. Take it or leave.
Dr. Liz:
You think I'd be messing with somebody who's like, I am who I am? Take it or leave it? You don't think I would have already left that a long time ago?
Nick Thompson:
I mean, I would hope. But maybe you did and came back there.
Dr. Liz:
I like how you're trying to check into this toxic cycle of mine. Know he is very aware of it and he is working on it. But I think that that is sometimes, too. And we're talking about red flags and even how we started the conversation of like being aware of our role in it. So when we know we attract people that are opposite or we attract people who are relational programing, triggers are bound to happen. And so while they might have the purest intentions and we have the purest intentions, it becomes a perfect storm of these triggers. And this reactivity comes together. And so more than anything, you just want peace and you just want to like, snuggle in love on each other and like, live happily ever after. But unfortunately, that's that's not how it works and that's not how our relational programing works. You know, we.
Nick Thompson:
Believe me, I know.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Yeah. What is your experience like with that? Like when you think of things that trigger you and then maybe you trigger back and we've talked about even like you needing to take timeouts and stuff like that with people even historically dated. What are some of those? Yeah, back and forth.
Nick Thompson:
So I need time. I need time out for any serious conversation. I, I also I'm not a fan of the Can we talk later. Okay. What about if you're going to tell me what about the no way can like that can help me prepare for it because if I do get blindsided, I get completely like everything I've ever learned about being calm like is out the window. And if I because I feel attacked and I don't know why, like I don't I know that's not the case. But in the moment, like, everything gets heightened. And that's why I need to, like, get a break.
Dr. Liz:
But do you come from a background of a critical parent?
Nick Thompson:
I don't. Yes and no. There was a lot of, like, pressure to do certain things. I think it's because I grew up Catholic to the and there's like the guilt and the pressure to, you know, be a priest like I was pressured to be a priest because my uncle was and, and it wasn't like deliberate, but it was like, you know, like those kind of things like, those are really hard growing up too, to be able to kind of like, express yourself and and feel like that's okay. So and I was bullied a lot as a kid, too. So I think that that all kind of plays into it where, you know, I'm just kind of like, I don't I'm trying so hard to be a good person and I have integrity, which is really hard to have in this world. And sometimes if someone's saying something that I don't feel is true, it is very it's hurtful and and triggering.
Dr. Liz:
Sounds like when you feel like you're like backed into a corner or when you're feeling maybe like powerless or something along those lines, then that creates like that's when you're adopted child comes out, an adopted child being, you know, those traits we developed early on to keep ourselves safe that we bring into our adult relationships that become maladaptive. And I have plenty of those to go around. But it sounds like that's what's going on for you in those moments of like your feeling, I mean, I guess cornered, maybe that's what's creating that.
Nick Thompson:
That's absolutely the best way to put it. I couldn't put it better myself when I feel backed into a corner and I don't feel like I'm put there in a good reason or for a good reason, that's really hard. That's a hard navigate.
Dr. Liz:
That's interesting. When you even say about somebody asking, Can we talk later? I did a training recently, a couples counseling training, and she was talking about how saying, can we talk later or we need to talk or something like that is like one of the worst things that you can do to set the stage for a hard conversation. Because, yes, really, you're activating that person's nervous system. They're going into a threat state, like what are you wanting to say? And so, I mean, I think that's great awareness for people to have as well. Like, what do you feel if you know that somebody wants to have a hard conversation or they want to bring something up? What is a way that they can approach that with you with as talking about it? Then avoid an attachment style that feels safer to you?
Nick Thompson:
I don't know that I've ever.
Dr. Liz:
Had it.
Nick Thompson:
To tell you, but what I would like to say is if I were to write it down on paper, I would like someone to say, Hey, Nick, something's on my mind. It's X. I want you to know like, I love you. I still want to be with you. This isn't a dealbreaker. This is just something that I need to work on. And that goes with my entire approach to arguments is let's like, take the argument from between us. Let's put it over there and like, let's turn together and face the argument and not face each other. And I think like, that's kind of like my whole philosophy behind the type of relationship that I need is that it's us against the world and it's going to be great. Sometimes it's going to suck sometimes, and we're going have conflicts sometimes. But if we can approach all of this stuff together, we're going to have a much better chance of coming out on the other side.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and, and collaborating on what that looks like to resolve it. Because you're right, often when there is an area of conflict, it becomes a me versus you thing. And so then that again, you're feeding off each other's triggers versus taking a step back and really looking at it like, okay, this is just something for us to problem solve together versus something that needs to be a deal breaker. When you feel like there's like when somebody presents. So even the verbiage you used of like this is not a deal breaker. This doesn't you know, it doesn't have to be the end. Do you often get that fear of like if somebody brings something up or if there is conflict? Do you often think, like, this is it, This is we end.
Nick Thompson:
I did. And then I stopped like but then it I got blindsided by this very thing where it was like coming home from work one day and it was a Friday and that was unexpected and it was like, We need to talk. And then that was it. And it was like retraumatizing, I guess, from past relationships after thinking like, you know, that that one was relatively healthy, at least from my perspective. And it was it was really difficult to like because we had discussions and disagreements and stuff like that all the time and but we never really, never got between us. But this was like so I kind of learned the behavior through that relationship of, Hey, like we can you can tell me you need something and it's okay. Like, and I can try and do better. So that was kind of like learned in the same relationship that it was then killed again.
Dr. Liz:
Yes. And I was having a conversation with a close friend recently about that. Like when you're in a relationship where they're demonstrating a lot of evidence to the contrary of your negative beliefs, so maybe you're afraid someone's going to leave or somebody can't be safe and then they give you evidence to support people. Be safe. People can show up for you, but then they end up ultimately, like you're saying, it's still engaging in a behavior that is like what you most fear is that muscle.
Nick Thompson:
Memory, but not the good kind.
Dr. Liz:
Right? And it almost becomes like not almost it does become a total mind fuck, because you think like, okay, this person showing me that people can show up different, that I can trust people, people can be safe. And then when they end up doing the very thing that you've been fearing, that's a really overwhelming feeling.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. That was I mean, that was right before COVID too. So that was like an exceptionally hard time. But yeah, that I think back to that and I was like, okay, so now I do have, you know, these and maybe this is a red flag I throw out there to people is like, do have this, this sort of fear of that. And it definitely makes it difficult for me to to trust someone. And then, you know, obviously I've had some pretty experiences in the public eye, which makes it even, you know, a whole nother layer. And that's that like even another thing dating like if someone, you know, if someone is someone going to be okay when, you know, five people come up to us at dinner and and want to take a picture because I, I get I would never do that. But unless I, you know, maybe I would do it if it was like someone I kind of know now. But, you know, I wouldn't do that to to quote a celebrity. But I understand that it can make someone's day. And so, like, I give people time and attention when they come and give it to me, even if it's inconvenient. So, I mean, that's like another thing where where I probably need to do better on on some of the areas there. But, you know, it's a I don't remember how I got on that, too.
Dr. Liz:
How would you do that differently, though? Like you feel like setting boundaries where people come up is what you're saying or.
Nick Thompson:
I think it's more of like that person needs to to like understand that this is going to happen and that like it's important to me to be kind to people.
Dr. Liz:
And okay and to.
Nick Thompson:
Communicate even when it's inconvenient. Yeah, even when it's inconvenient.
Dr. Liz:
So on that, No. Are a couple of your red flags that I mean, we've talked about like our roles and dynamics, but if you were just start dating you or if you were starting to text with you, what are some of your potential red flags that you think people that people by.
Nick Thompson:
The obvious avoid and the obvious avoidance for conflict? And I think I, I don't know if I'm I know how I need to behave. I guess I have to get real life experience again to see if I can actually stick to it, because it kind of that skill set kind of got whittled away. And I think that another red flag for me is it can be the introverted part. Like if I have like you're I think, you know, I told you before like you're my third podcast today, I'm dead after that. It's like I'm is I'm useless. So like, if that could be a red flag for someone. And I think that can create conflict. So there's that. I also I don't know if this is a red again like red flags are perspective sometimes like I'm not that close with my family. I don't see them that often. I hope you know that those boundaries around the amount of time I spend with my family have been foundational to, you know, my my mental health. And it's it's not just because, you know, they trigger me. It's like it's just it's healthier for our relationships if we don't interact every weekend like we used to. So I think some people look at that and they're like, that's you know, that's a red flag. You're not close with your family.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I could tell you that for sure.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah.
Dr. Liz:
But also can relate to the need to do that. And I think that there is this like pocket of people that understand the importance of those boundaries. But then there's also the societal stigma around like blood is thicker and you know, all of that. So the stigma around if you don't talk with your your family or don't have a close relationship, then there's something wrong with you versus, you know, I've done years of therapy so that there's not something wrong with me and that's why I don't talk to them.
Nick Thompson:
Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's, you know, I think we're getting there as a society in a sense. Right. Like we're trying to cure like our generation. I don't really know what Gen Z is doing. They confuse me all the time, but I remember when millennials did that to everybody, too. So here we are turning into our parents. But, you know, I feel like there's like such awareness around the generational trauma and around the the learned damaging behaviors that our parents, grandparents may or may not everyone may or may not have exhibited. And for us, it's like it it is important like it's important to me to have a good relationship with my family. But in order to have a good relationship with my family, it needs to be limited time spent together. And I you know, I go back to Christmas. I think I told you this when we were just chatting one time like I was at Christmas, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, everyone's sitting there. They're all triggering each other. And I'm just like, This is why I have to limit my time. And it's just it's I hope none of them listen to this, but like, I have to limit my time or else I'm just going to be in a constant state of walking on eggshells and being irritable and and all of that stuff.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Being in a threat state. I mean, it it does. It activates your nervous system, then you can't function optimally at that point because trying to please everyone else by being around or showing up in the way that they want, but the toll that it takes, like it's also a brave thing to recognize the toll that it takes and to not put yourself in that position is a really hard and it's an act of rebellion really, in our society.
Nick Thompson:
Right. What about you?
Dr. Liz:
What about your.
Nick Thompson:
You just messed with yourself on hinge. What are the what are the red flags? What's the first red flag you would notice as you dating you.
Dr. Liz:
B how much I work for sure. So that would be you guys.
Nick Thompson:
Wouldn't have any time to spend together.
Dr. Liz:
So you know, like there would be like and I noticed that, like, some people will try to text me and I'm just like, I'm not if I like you, I'm going to text you back. Like, and that sounds really rude, like, but you get what I mean. Like if I have a relationship, though. Well, thank you. I appreciate the validation.
Nick Thompson:
This is what you know, I was saying, I started to say earlier, like I always tell my friends, especially like some younger ones I have I have some friends that were like, you know, in their early twenties a few years ago. And it's it's a nightmare for them out there. Like, does he like me? He came up to me in a bar. Now he's not texting me. No, he doesn't on the day, but now he's texting again, you know, all of that stuff. And I just always said, I'm like, when someone likes you, you'll know it because you won't have to worry if they're going to text you back and they will text. And if they don't, you'll know that it's just because they're preoccupied with something else at the moment. So I think that's totally fair for you to say.
Dr. Liz:
I think that's what makes me suck so much at dating, though, is that like I don't take the time to text people back unless they have relevance in my life in the sense that, like we already have some type of established connection. But then I understand the vicious cycle of that because we can't establish a connection if I'm not interacting. But to your point, maybe I'm proactively avoiding dating. So I don't know. But my other I think.
Nick Thompson:
I think you I think you are. But we can.
Dr. Liz:
I think that is. Nick, go ahead. Give us a little psychoanalysis.
Nick Thompson:
Well, when was the last time you just said I think you said a little bit ago, no apps, right? Or you're on the apps.
Dr. Liz:
But now I'm on the apps.
Nick Thompson:
But are you on the apps?
Dr. Liz:
Like using the app I'm using? Well, what do you mean by using? Am I going on dates? No.
Nick Thompson:
Well, do you.
Dr. Liz:
Write it on my phone? Yes.
Nick Thompson:
Yes, exactly. So they're downloaded on your phone. It's like, well, you know, I'm in software marketing, so it's like you sell the software. If people aren't using it, you're not providing value.
Dr. Liz:
Okay.
Nick Thompson:
Not using it. It's not providing value.
Dr. Liz:
All right.
Nick Thompson:
So some homework for you.
Dr. Liz:
Let's hear it.
Nick Thompson:
Pick an app and go match with someone and start a conversation tonight.
Dr. Liz:
Okay. That's likely not going to happen. But that. No. Tell us real quick before we wrap up about the not not the nonprofit that you have recently founded.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah. So for those of you who who know or probably most of you know, I was on Love is Blind, and that was season two. And one of the things that I noticed going through this experience from my own personal experience, my own troubles and struggles with mental health, my own challenges within my relationship from the show and seeing what it does to people. There is no mental health support and love is blind. There's not a mental health support on a lot of shows. And I've even heard from other contestants on other shows that even if there is there actually there to help production, not the people. So the not for profit is called the You Can Foundation. It's the unscripted cast Advocacy Network Foundation. We are a not for profit dedicated to providing mental health services outside of of production through our organization pre to help coach you understand what you're getting into during to make sure that you're acting in your best interest and and have that support to make decisions when you're in a heightened state of anxiety and a heightened state of exhaustion. And then after to help you navigate what life is going to be like, you know, post-show it's a relationship show, whatever that is, you know, and make sure that you have adequate mental health services. Additionally, we are offering some legal support to help you review contracts and understand what's actually in these contracts because they're insane. They're like, mine was like 30 pages and there's a lot of stuff in there that I didn't understand. So like just making sure that these people have resources so that the exploitation of reality stars slows down. And then ultimately, my main goal with this foundation is to get to a place where a third party is required to provide mental health services for each cast member going on a reality TV show. So that that's yeah, that's the plan. And, you know, we just launched and you can find us at you can foundation DOT org donations are really important to us because right now we have a group of volunteers that are coming in from a mental health perspective and a attorney and practicing law perspective, along with a lot of other people coming in and everyone's working pro-bono. And you know, we need the resources to to help do that. So donating would be great. Sharing it on social, helping to spread the word would would be great as well. So anything yeah, anything you you think about that. I know we've talked about it you know a little bit about my experience like how do you feel about.
Dr. Liz:
Yeah I know I can help in.
Nick Thompson:
Reality TV.
Dr. Liz:
And we have definitely talked about that and it's so important. And just even watching this most recent season and watching some of the break downs that were happening and, you know, reading a little bit about that like it is needed. And I think exploitation is the best way to state that, that these human lives and real human emotions and people often say and Clinton, I have talked about this as well, that like you knew what you signed up for. But that doesn't justify treating a human in the way that they're treated by the production team, but then also by the rest of the world who is like does not even treat them like humans anymore. And so I know.
Nick Thompson:
What you're.
Dr. Liz:
Doing.
Nick Thompson:
You are sort of Thank you. You're so right. I just posted a reel on the you signed up for this literally while you were going through your tech setup. So go check it out.
Dr. Liz:
Check it out for sure. But we're going go ahead.
Nick Thompson:
I was just going to say one last thing on this. I, I find that this I feel that this is productions responsibility to ensure the wellness of the people that they are making billions of dollars off of. And it's not that much to ask to have someone on set that can jump in as a mental health professional help navigate a conflict or navigate someone who's having a breakdown, help them navigate it. And I, I said this on Inside Edition and they cut it. So I'm going to say it here. You get better mental health support on an airplane than you get from Love is Blind specifically. And I can speak to that because if someone has a panic attack or someone's in conflict, what's the first thing a flight attendant does? They go see if anyone's a doctor or a mental health professional, they can come and help this person. You don't even get that, you know. So it's it's it's just so brutal. People go through so much. You build toxic habits in a heightened environment. That's a pressure cooker. And I think having someone in there to help you navigate those conflicts and build healthy habits for conflicts to build healthy habits for, you know, surviving a panic attack or coming out of, you know, a mental breakdown would be I mean, it's it's a small ask to just not ruin people's lives.
Dr. Liz:
I absolutely agree. And I look forward to hearing more for sure about, you know, and happy to share what you're putting out and fully in support of that, especially with you. Like we are friends and I care about you and I see the toll that it's taken on you and that alone makes it like I'm happy to support the cause for sure. Because I think when people don't have personal relationships with individuals who experience have experienced this, it's really easy to stay disconnected from it and keep it in the entertainment category versus when you know these real conversations around it. So good work that you're doing networking. People find you on social media and everything like that.
Nick Thompson:
You can find me on Instagram at and Thompson 513. My podcast is available on all podcast platforms. It's currently called Conversations with Nick Thompson. In about two weeks, it's going to be rebranded Two Eyes Wide Open. We talk about all things mental health, free speech, overall health and wellness, holistic health. A lot of a lot of things that are maybe stigmatized. But the goal is that you can listen to this podcast, learn about things, and go through your life with your eyes wide open, and then you can also find me at Engage with NBC.com and you can find the UConn foundation. As I said earlier, you can foundation, dawg.
Dr. Liz:
Very cool. And we will get all go ahead.
Nick Thompson:
Is there another one I was going to say and I'm going to plug my my guy to journal plug it. So I have been journaling my since I was about five or six years old. And as I've been going through my divorce, very public divorce, I was also laid off and I felt hit rock bottom. And so I just started putting structure into how journal and this is what I did, what I came up with and basically it's an eight week or it's an eight week journal to help you reconnect with yourself and it's by practicing gratitude, setting intentions, making time for self-care. And there's a lot of tips and tricks in there that will help you at the same time.
Dr. Liz:
And people can get that on Amazon.
Nick Thompson:
Yeah, you can find it on Amazon or you can find it at the link in my Instagram profile or on my website.
Dr. Liz:
Very cool. Well, thank you for coming to hang out with me and talking about your red flags. As always, I appreciate our conversations and for the.
Nick Thompson:
Chance to have. So nice to have the opportunity. Thanks.
Dr. Liz:
Thanks. Thanks, Nick. Always fun chatting with you and I'll be sure to jump right on that homework assignment. Thank you all for hanging out. Unrelatable Relationships Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.