Relatable podcast 

Clayton Echard:
That's the big struggle now that I have, is are you just trying to attach to me for your own personal benefit at this point or to say that you're dating the former bachelor? I mean, there are people that do care about status and I don't. So my my insecurity now is is okay. The people that are coming and talking to me now, I have to wonder, do you like me for me or do you like me for what I've done for.

 

Dr. Liz:
The limited number of dates that I have gone on when people know I'm a therapist? Like, Holy cow. What do you think they want to talk about? And I'm like, I am not your therapist. Let's be very clear. And so unless I'm billing you for this date, like enough, this is relatable. Relationships, unfiltered. Hey, and welcome back to Relatable Relationships Unfiltered.

 

Dr. Liz:
We've got another great episode for you today with my friend Clayton Echard. Clayton is a mental and physical wellness advocate, currently working on a mental health book and probably best known for his time on reality TV as The Bachelor and I are chatting all about our insecurities in both dating and relationship and where his dating life is going from here. Hey, Clayton.

 

Clayton Echard:
How's it going?

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, good. How have you been?

 

Clayton Echard:
I'm pretty good. A lot has been happening right now, a lot of change in my life. But I have settled down now in Arizona. So you're very familiar with the area. And now it's time for me to figure out how this place operates so well.

 

Dr. Liz:
And you're familiar as well. You were out here prior, right?

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, I was from January to about April, and then I skipped the terrible summers, so I still haven't had the experience yet, but I came back just in time for the perfect weather. So I kind of played like I was like a snowbird in a way. I guess I got the.

 

Dr. Liz:
well, there you go.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah. So I'm getting that experience. But it's been it's been good. I mean, obviously, you and I, we've talked on and off camera and things. Things are falling into place, thankfully. But I mean, it has been quite, quite the experience, I guess, is the best way to put it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, absolutely. And what have you been up to like in terms of so you moved out here in September, the end of when did you move out to Arizona?

 

Clayton Echard:
I've been here for about a month at this point. Still kind of doing some traveling for different events and such, which is cool. On the mental health side of things, also just going to see friends. So I'm prioritizing traveling because I grew up in Missouri my entire life, so I felt very sheltered. I got it. I was ignorant. I didn't know what else was out there, and now I've had a taste of it all. So I have that itch. And so I've been kind of scratching that edge. And then just really put in working on my computer to try to build some stuff. So it's I don't know. I mean, it's been good and honestly, I've stayed busy. I don't know if I've had enough time for air points, but I think I like to be distracted. So that's usually the best thing for me.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And you've had just so much like literal transitions for I mean, months and months and months when you filmed the show and then when I mean moved to a different state right from there. And then you've just been nonstop and I know even from a work perspective, but you've been doing a mental health advocacy, but then also doing a lot of your physical health advocacy. Where do you kind of see the future taking you? You know, like even in the next year or so.

 

Clayton Echard:
I, I would say in a perfect world. But I've realized so much change happens that I keep having these opportunities come up that really does shift the needle. So as of right now, I just say I'm a mental and physical wellness advocate and then what that looks like as far as as long as it usually falls in the box, I'll take it on. I am starting to be able to build things out where through utilizing online platforms, forums, really just trying to build something where individuals can go for all their physical and mental health resource is or mental health resources. So I've really just been trying to take everything that may be scattered, and I know a lot of individuals I speak with, they don't know where to look for information or maybe they just don't care. So I do the research, so I'm trying to kind of pull things together so that there's like, Hey, you can come here, you're going to get the physical aspect, the mental health aspect. That's just what I found, where there might be a need. And as far as with the audience that I have so whatever that looks like, it's just been a moving target and I have people reach out and I feel that right now I am at that age, especially now being single. I can take these things on because it all falls on only my shoulders. So you know that stage your life or you're kind of just you're trying everything out before you have to find some. Well, I don't know. I mean, you tell me like, I feel like you take on a lot of stuff, too.

 

Dr. Liz:
I was just going to say, like, the single part of it, though, is like, sometimes I do feel like I'm in a relationship with, like, my my passions, with my work, with my career with. And it sounds like that's kind of what you're describing as well as being single gives you the freedom to explore all of that.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, I know it does. And I think also I'm trying to break out of the structure that's defined me my entire life. All I knew was structure growing up in Missouri, and it was basically go to school, get a job, start a family, then, you know, work till retirement. And I've broken that sense of stability as of recently, I don't have a 9 to 5 right now. I work my own hours and I work more hours than I did when I was in corporate. But it's it's scary because the unknown, I think at first I wanted to run from it. And the first time I launched something and it didn't go well, I just was like, I'm going back to corporate. But thankfully I had the right people and around me to say, Hey, listen, just get another try, just do better, do more. And so it's been interesting. I, I think I've realized since that life doesn't have to have this really definitive pathway. It can go like in loops and circles. And so that's kind of what I'm doing. And I'm just I'm just running around and going down that path and jumping back on this one. And now it feels very freeing.

So it's been really odd. I went from like being very panicky and wanting to go back to what I knew to now, like loving all the twists and turns. And I don't know. Did you I mean, did you kind of go through that too, or do you feel for you that you kind of grew up always wanting to just take on so much at once and you didn't see it as from point A to point B, You saw it as it could go a million different directions.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, I think a lot of my overachieving a lot of the things that I do is rooted in overachieving, which is rooted in my negative core beliefs, right? So like even what I had to do to get love or acceptance or attention and upbringing, like that's been my realization present day that that that really influences. It's like I keep running, but where am I going? And that's what I have kind of been asking myself recently, especially when we're talking about it in terms of relationships. Because because I do stay so busy. I had told my therapist a while ago, like she's like, Why aren't you dating? Like, get out there. You know that you're a relationship relationship expert. Like, start exploring that. And I'm like, Yeah, I'm just far too busy. And she's like, Okay, bullshit. Are you far too busy or are you doing this intentionally so that you don't have to date and she may or may not be correct, but so I think that that is honestly why I do stay so busy. Is it it really fuels a just like twofold fuels a distraction for me. But then also it's it is what I knew to be acceptance. And so if I'm not being accepted in a relationship, I'm finding it through this.

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, I always find it interesting because you kind of alluded to it with growing up. I've realized, especially now, as I've talked to a lot of other individual boys, that so much of today's struggles all sprouted from the past. And so a lot of my insecurities and weaknesses and the things that I've dealt with today, I'm realizing there's a connection from childhood and where where I was lacking or felt that I was lacking. And maybe I didn't realize it at the time, consciously as a kid, but I think that's where I'm at now, where I'm chasing it. But I think it's fascinating to how as you, you know, your relationship expert and I find that we can give great advice, we have a great perspective on life, but yet we don't follow our own advice or like we're aware of it. And it just yeah, I think it's interesting because if I'm aware of it and I can tell people, here's how you do this, but then it's like, Well, why am I not doing this in my own life? I just find that's so interesting. I don't know if I have the answer for that as far as what it is. I mean, if I'm aware of what I'm doing wrong, if I know how to fix it, then why am I telling everybody and not doing it myself? Is it because I'm spending more time trying to help others and not being selfish enough to help myself? I mean, that's that's kind of the question that I've struggled with. And I don't know if you have that answer as far as what that is. I think sometimes when you try to give so much, you forget to receive and give back to yourself. So I think that's maybe where I've started to question is, hey, maybe you need to start taking more time to yourself because I do have a platform. I am trying to spread this message, but so often I'm pushing out externally and I'm not allowing myself to internalize things. So I don't I don't know. It's kind of a it's a balance, right? But it's different.

 

Dr. Liz:
For well, for sure. And especially like in the work that I do, it's so caretaking based. And so, you know, it's caretaking with my clients. And then it's also I mean, I have a couple different practices, so it's caretaking of the people who the providers who work there are the admin and then my kid, you know, So it's a lot of what I am doing. It's, it is taking care of everyone around me. And I think you're making a great point that because of that, yeah, I frequently don't stop to realize like what what I'm not doing for me, in spite of that, my client gave me shit a couple of days ago because he I had to cancel his session the week prior because my ear hurt so bad. The night before that I was like, okay, I have to go to Urgent Care. And he was like, So you mean to tell me you waited until it got so bad? Like, okay, yeah. But he was like, he said the same thing. He's like, You tell me all the time to take care of myself. I'm like, I know. But listen, I'm also a work in progress, So like, I'm very aware of where I lack.

 

Clayton Echard:
Well, and I think there's something to be said to when you take on so much, I think you start to lose sight of the things that you need to address. So I have a running checklist on my phone of things that I want to get done, but that list just gets longer and longer and longer. And so sometimes a lot of those priorities start to get pushed down and they might even be top priority. I just also, in my attentions, drawn in a different direction. And so I think that's where like being able to reset yourself and ground yourself. And for me, that's why I do keep the schedule is the list is so I can always look at it every morning so that I know I'll wait. I've pushed that down five notches. This needs to be brought back up. That's helped a little bit. Also, like with the calendar, I use my calendar app all the time, so I just like look at my calendar and that's the only way that I can keep track of like the little things that I care greatly about, like calling my parents. I got in trouble because I didn't talk to them for like a month and a half, and I didn't even realize it because I was so busy traveling and doing podcasts and building my, you know, network online and all this that stuff. And my brother's messaged me that I should probably call mom just a heads up. And I'm like, Wait, when's the last time I talked to her? I looked at my phone and said, A month and a half. I was like, my gosh, obviously I love my family. They're priority number one. But that's a great instance where my top priority of relationships just got shoved down by things that were less important but that were more time sensitive, I guess.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, Yeah, I think that's a great example. I mean, that falls right in to all the self-care. I mean, that same thing that these things that mean the most to us can be so easily neglected. When you were talking earlier about like the insecurities that come up for you in relationships, how do you find that that is I mean, tying into all of this, right? Because so you're aware of the insecurities and again, it's like, then what are we doing about it? Like as a professional athlete, you were the bachelor. Like these really prized roles in our society. And in spite of that, you're you know, you're saying you also get insecure. What is that like for you? How does that influence you? So even I guess let's talk about it from a couple of directions. So like when you're in out in the dating arena, but then also in relationship, like where do you think that stuff comes up for you?

 

Clayton Echard:
Well, again, I think for me, what I've since realized and through going to therapy, through journaling, through just talking with friends and family, I didn't realize how much my childhood really continues to impact me as an adult. And I think a lot of it was I never really addressed a lot of the issues. I just suppressed them. But, you know, suppressing issues just allows them to build up. They just go away for another day. They don't go away for good. So what I've realized now is, is I've done a lot of self-reflection is that I had a lot of wounds that weren't healed. I just stuck a Band-Aid on them. But they were still open wounds. And that's been something where now, as I try to address them, those insecurities and weaknesses, you know, when you pull the Band-Aid off and all sudden you're bleeding from five different spots, that you're only focused on those insecurities and weaknesses. So what that does is that takes your focus away from relationships, from those other people around you. Because you're up, you're focused, can only really be in one area. I mean, undivided attention is what you want to give people. It's what you really want to. I try to pour into all of my life experiences, but if I'm busy, distracted, trying to stop the bleeding, then I can't look over and give that attention to somebody else. And that's what I've realized right now, is that I'm over here trying to stitch up all of these wounds so that, you know, I can then have a heal the body, a healed mind, so that I can then pour into somebody else. But any time that I think you're focusing on the things that are your that your weakness that you fear, it pulls away that attention that you would give to someone else. And I just think it's really hard to love someone else when you don't love yourself. And it's really hard to give someone else attention when you know that you need attention to fix what you need to fix first. So that's really affected a lot of my relationships. And I, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I mean, you tell me, do you feel like do you know any individual that really at the same time is fully healed? I mean, some of that you're just like this person just has it all figured out. I mean, I don't know if there's a amount of bleeding each individual can take. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone that's perfectly whole and perfectly content with every aspect of their life. But I don't know. Do you feel like you run into the same thing with I mean, you talk to clients yourself. I guess it's just a balance like everything else in life maybe.

 

Dr. Liz:
I mean, sure. And I think everyone is broken or whatever word we want to use to some extent. And I.

 

Clayton Echard:
I got I got beaten to death for using that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Word. tell me about that.

 

Clayton Echard:
That well, I'm so broken. It was played out all over social media. And for the show, I mean, people made a joke out of it, which which was upsetting because that those were genuine tears. That was a genuine comment. I wasn't saying that to drum up drama. I didn't think that was going to become my tagline. But then it became this rotting joke of He's so broken. And, you know, in a way it's it's sad because people made a joke out of my pain, really. And and I'm not here to play victim today. I'm not here to play a victim at all in general when.

 

Dr. Liz:
We're talking about insecurities. So it's not about being a victim. And I plan to share plenty of mine as well. But our insecurities and our vulnerabilities, that doesn't make you a victim like you're saying. That is your hurt. That's your reality.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah. And that was the thing is, it's really tough when it comes to reality TV, when it's real. But to a degree, right. So there's there there are some things that are missing context that's not there. And so it's it's well, okay, people are watching it and they either they're either told to take it for what it is or they're told that there's more that's behind the scenes. I think the best way to approach it is know that there's more going on behind the scenes so you don't have the full story. But then also if someone's watching a show and they feel like they don't have the full story, then you know, I don't think I think as a viewer, they want to feel like they're in on everything as well. So it's kind of tough. I mean, this is the way that reality TV is, is that I think it should be kind of mindless entertainment. But still, there are real emotions at play. And that's where I think people tend they looked at me like a character. I mean, The Bachelor was my role, right? I was this character. I was this I had this position. But the fact of the matter was, is I was really just a kid from Missouri, you know, a month prior to becoming The Bachelor. So I wasn't any different than anybody else. But but to say that I played up things for the TV and all that or or that, those are to laugh at my tears. I'm like, This is backwards because we really should in this day and age, be allowing individuals a safe place to be able to express their emotions, but to make someone a laughing stock for the pain they're experiencing. I mean, it was tough for me to have to conceptualize that and and move on. And, you know, truthfully, I mean, I'm glad that people kind of did, though, tear into me because it made forced me to have to stop trying to please everybody. And so that weakness that was exploited, I had to address it and overcome it. So and because if I didn't overcome it, I was going to get torn down and crawl into a corner and cry myself to sleep for months on end. And I wouldn't be where I am today, I would have just been like, Woe is me, and nobody would have blamed me for crawling into a corner. But then if I crawled into a corner, I wouldn't be doing all the stuff I'm doing today. So I think that tough love, I was raised that way in some aspects. And so I think sometimes you can you can find the silver lining in it all, and sometimes you go through these hardships for a greater purpose.

\Dr. Liz:
Sure. And sometimes as though we put silver lining on things that are really hurtful. Like, I think it's for me, it's more about saving room for the and versus putting the silver lining on it. Like it's just a perspective shift, you know, that you went through all of that really hard stuff in the show and you've had a lot to come out of it because of the way you've handled it. You've had a lot of opportunities and you've made a lot of really great connections and relationships because of it. And obviously people don't get that when they're watching you on TV. They're watching what has been edited. And because I mean, I even remember watching your season and I so specifically remember turning to my friend and being like, he legit doesn't know what to say or do right now. Like, he you can just see Oliver's face. He does not know what to say and like I felt for you. But at the same time, I get I get where the viewers are coming from that you know, we think that you have to have all this information. You've got to be like so much more equipped for going into this role than you actually are. Like like you said, you're just a kid. Like you weren't equipped for all of that.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah. And I mean, too, I was emotionally immature. I mean, I'm definitely in a better headspace than I was then. But I you know, the thing that I realized was a lot of what people were pointing out online, there were there was validity to it. The issue was, is that they attach so much emotion to those comments. And a great lesson that I learned is that when you're trying to get through to somebody and constructively criticize them or not even Chris, I just help them see where maybe there's areas of growth in their life. You have to extract the emotion out because when you inject emotion with rationale, more than likely it's someone's ego is going to get involved. And that's exactly what happened. I had I have an ego like everybody else. Everybody has an ego, right? Everyone has a sense of purpose. Everyone has their self-identity that's protecting them, that's making them have their selfish desires that that we are trying our perspective of the world. We all have that. And I realized that a lot of the stuff online, I finally was able to find value in those comments, but it was only through the ones where they pulled out the emotion because the second that you inject emotion, people will respond with emotion and emotional response. And amidst an emotional response, I mean, the the real emotionally immature individuals can respond with rationale regardless of the emotion that's thrown their way. But I just also something I was thinking of recently is a lot of times when I grew up, I was told these different things like respect isn't given, it's earned, and I just started having this thought as well. I thought, you know what, I want to give respect regardless of whether it's earned or not. Like if somebody spits in my face, I want to be able to look back at them and with kindness and love and compassion and just see that they're hurting and try to understand them. Because I think that's the sign of an emotionally, extremely emotionally immature individual. But so much the societal constructs are, it's not given, it's earned. And, you know, I'm going to treat others like they're treating me. And I'm like, I don't want to stoop down to that level because I don't want any more negativity in my life. You know, I'm trying to flood myself with positivity as much as I can. And so if I'm waiting for someone to give me respect and it never comes, then I'm just going to be negative waiting on it. And so I'm giving you. Yeah. And it's and so I've just stopped waiting for things. I think that's also something where I'm like just going to take action. It's like if you want to, if you want to change your outcome, then go do it yourself, because I can't rely on somebody else. If people want to come along for the ride, that's awesome. But at the end of the day, it's like it's on my shoulders whether or not I make these changes. But social media is a beast because it's really easy for individuals to say whatever they want behind a screen and not be held accountable. And I mean this show you how crazy it is. I get people nonstop at telling me, I thought you were like 510 on the camera. Made you seem like you're 510. So not even my height came across accurately on TV. I mean, that just goes to show you that even the even the visual images are distorted to some degree. You know, like people like I think you're five, ten. I'm like, you're off by six inches. But that's that's the thing is that it's just it goes to show you that it's a little lens that you're looking through and millions of people are looking through it. But it's this big and it's like just if I do this, you know, I'm cutting out everything else that's around it. That should be.

 

Dr. Liz:
Context. Yeah. When you went into that experience, like, okay, I don't mean this insensitively, but I know it's literally probably what everyone is thinking. Did you not realize that that backlash would exist or that like you would be scrutinized in that way? Or like, how much thought did you put into that? Like going into the experience of thinking like, I'm I'm going to be ripped apart for this.

 

Clayton Echard:
And not much thought. And that's something that I, I went so quickly from The Bachelorette to The Bachelor, literally less than a month between the two. So I was I was right out of one experience and thrust right back into another one. And I never really watched the show. I didn't have interest in watching it, but I saw I was kind of like, I could do my homework and watch other seasons prior and get an idea and talk to these other previous bachelors. But then, you know, I had advice being said to me, people in my ear saying, if you're a good person, then that's the way you'll be portrayed. And I was just naive enough to believe that. And so I thought, I don't need to do my homework. I'll be me, because I don't want to be influenced by anybody else, because all of these other people prior have a terribly low success rate as far as people that end up staying together. So I don't want to get advice from people that haven't found success. I'm just going to go ahead and do it my way. And that was ignorance. And that was, again, my ego. My ego was telling me, You're going to be different than all these other previous guys. And I thought that I was a whole lot different than they were then. What I realized I wasn't because after the show I talked to a lot of them and I'm like, Wait, you're just like, I am. You are a good, kindhearted individual, and you got ripped to shreds too, because there is no crash course for dating 30 people on TV at one time. You just go, you get thrust into it and then you can't really be proactive. You're just reacting because there's no other environment that you'll ever be able to date multiple women at once where all the women are okay with it. You can make out with somebody and then and then all other the women are like, I still want to talk to them. Now, if you did that at a bar, women would leave in a heartbeat. we just kissed. I draw them out. I don't want them right. Like, it's just that's where my ignorance told me. Everyone will be understanding of how this is different from reality. So go and be your best self and people will give you grace. And that was. That was the ignorance that I displayed.

 

Dr. Liz:
I learned, yes. What were some of the insecurities that you had going into it, especially? I mean, that even shifts my perspective. The whole thing that you hadn't really watched prior. Melissa, the producer of this show, and I, we have a friend that we have given such a hard time. We've made him watch some of the episodes and stuff because he was he also was like, I've never seen it. And we're like, Are you living under a rock? But apparently The Bachelor himself didn't see much of it prior when you realized you were going into it knowing that, okay, so whether you had seen it or not, you know you're going to be on this huge show. You know that like you're going to be in front of all of America. What were some of the insecurities that you started to have, whether physical, mental, emotional, like what did you start to think about.

 

Clayton Echard:
That everything was going to be overanalyzed. So I already had insecurities and weaknesses. As I've mentioned on prior podcasts out in public, I've always been a people pleaser. I always felt like through my life I was trying to show people that I could be something greater than what they viewed me as. And that stemmed from my childhood, again, from having a brother that was a star athlete two years younger than me, that was on varsity before I was, and then from women that didn't want to date me in high school because I was socially awkward and they call me Big Brother. And so I didn't feel, you know, and I didn't like the way my body looked so physically I didn't feel I was desired. Nobody wanted to date me. And I always felt as a kid that I was living in the shadows of everybody else. So I already knew that I was walking into the experience with those insecurities and then pile that on top with, Well, okay, are these women here on the show for me or for fame? Because there's a track record of people going on the show just to get famous and they'll do whatever it takes. They'll fake emotions, they'll fake whatever they'll do. They'll do whatever they can to put themselves on top at the end of the day. And so as I went through the experience, I already had those insecurities from the past. But then you start to have all of the other things that come with the show that you're like, wow, this camera is literally two feet away from me and I'm kissing right now. This this woman, is this going to look good on camera? What's my grandma going to think, you know, is my game that I'm spittin towards these women? Like, are my brothers going to make fun of me, which they do, You know, all these like everything is overanalyzed. And then my big thing was like in my lips that was I don't know, I don't do it that often now, but I think it was a nervous tic or something that I was doing while on the show. And so that became a big thing that people are just focused on. And, you know, you once you realize that all of these things are at play, it kind of you're focused again on these little things. So then all of a sudden, the big things swirling around that are bubbling up, that are starting to fester, you're not really paying attention to it because I'm just in this moment, I'm thinking, guys, I need different chapstick because my lips, I keep licking them. So can we get me some new Chapstick because I can't keep licking my lips, but everyone's going to make me a part for this. Meanwhile, there's some kind of confrontation bubbling up behind the scenes, but I'm not paying attention to that because I'm so I'm.

 

Dr. Liz:
Chapstick.

 

Clayton Echard:
Because and I'm just so hyper focused on wanting people to accept me for who I am. And so that's the issue, is that you're in such familiar environment trying to control everything, and there's so many uncontrolled, uncontrollable that you, by the time you realize you can't control them, you're getting smacked in the face by all of these foreign circumstances and drama that's been bubbling that you've just missed because your focus was in a different area for sure.

 

Dr. Liz:
And going into like dating, like you said, now that you're single. So obviously you, you know, eventually will get well, hopefully won't be like me and will get back into the dating world and try to find some connection. And with that, like, do you feel like you're bringing insecurities from that experience with you or like, tell us what goes on for Clayton Eckard when he is at the club or at the bar or like wherever social and you're standing there and, you know, all these beautiful women are around you, like, tell us about the inner workings. What are what's insecure for you in those moments?

 

Clayton Echard:
well, now my new insecurity is that I don't know if people come up to talk to me because of they want to get to know me. Clayton The human being, or if they're wanting to get to know me because of who of the role that I used to play. And so I don't know if if you know, I do have people that are everyone's very kind in person and I get a lot of people that come to me and and tell me that they loved watching me or they think I'm a good dude or whatever. Like I don't get a ton of hate in person. But then, you know, I have to think, okay, from a relationship standpoint, if I try to start dating any of these women, you know, do I want somebody that comes up to me and starts talking or do I want to go chase after somebody that's not intrigued by who I am or is not impressed by what I've done? Because that's the big struggle now that I have, is are you just trying to attach to me for your own personal benefit at this point or to say that you're dating the former bachelor? I mean, there are people that do care about status and I don't. So my my insecurity now is is okay. The people that are coming and talking to me now, I have to wonder, do you like me for me or do you like me for what I've done? And that's that is a struggle. And but I will say when it comes to me, I'm a very open book as that got me in trouble quite a bit on the show. But you told me I would be my therapist for a second year. I, I, I'm very open right out the gate these days. I don't feel like I have time to sit here and hide. I don't hide anything. It's all online at this point anyways. But for you and and your relationships are when you're interested in somebody, do you find yourself kind of just coming out with how you feel and the things you struggle with right away? Or do you still protect that for a certain timeframe? Or I guess it's probably more on a case by case basis, but I kind of find myself enjoying jumping into these conversations quicker these days, and I don't know if that's overwhelming.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I was going to say like, how quick is quick?

 

Clayton Echard:
Well, you know, I think saying I'm a people pleaser isn't something that's going to shut someone off. I'm like, man, Like, you're breaking a lot of news on me here. But to say I mean, I'm not saying I go to the club and I'm like, Hey, you know, I don't feel good enough about myself, so can you make me feel good tonight?

 

Dr. Liz:
Like buy you a drink?

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, Yeah. But I'm not playing the pity card. But, you know, actually, what I did notice was when I came off the show and I wasn't looking to date, I'm still not really in that headspace, but I had people come up and approach me, attractive woman, and I would just tell my story and I realized that I had so much pain from it that I was coming off as pessimistic. And I could you I even noticed that, you know, the guys, guys and girls, anyone that came up to talk to me were like, Whoa, I can tell in their face. Like, I was not expecting this man to unleash this on me. And, you know, I don't know. I don't really like this energy. I almost could feel there was like I was trauma dumping ass. And whether it was like and again, I wasn't looking for anything as far as from relationship standpoint, but I was just trauma dumping on anybody that that would ask and had it had ears and I would trauma.

 

Dr. Liz:
Like you like you said, you're bleeding all over the place. So I mean that would make sense that it would come out in that way. And the reason I ask how quickly for the limited number of dates that I have gone on, when people know I'm a therapist, like, holy cow, what do you think they want to talk about? And I'm like, I am not your therapist. Let's be very clear. So unless I'm billing you for this date like enough, but that is what is so common. Like they, you know, they want to talk all about it and tell me all about their childhood and deepest, darkest secrets. And I'm like, Bitch, I don't care. Like, I don't care about that.

 

Clayton Echard:
But let me ask you this. So I'm really curious because I think it's so great to have those discussions. So but for you, it's it's really intriguing, right? This is what you do on a daily basis. So for you, it's work. But for other people, it's what really gets them to start building trust between individuals. So kind of what what is your timeline for that as far as if you start talking to somebody and you like the guy? I mean, you want to have those discussions eventually. So is there as a therapist, do you have in your head as far as like, okay, I'm not like, this is I'm okay with these talks after a certain timeframe? Because again, I mean, I get it. Like people do want to talk about work, but your work is what brings people closer together and builds trust and between individuals. So when is it the right time to talk to a therapist about their feelings if you're interested in them.

 

Dr. Liz:
But let me ask you that on the flip side, because if your first date talked all about their trauma the whole time, would that be like a turn on to you? Would that be like, you are so traumatized, like, I can't wait to see you next Friday?

 

Clayton Echard:
You know, maybe I'm screwed up, but I really enjoy talking about the things that aren't often talked about. So to me, when someone opens up to me, I have a soft spot in my heart and I instantly go into this mindset of, okay, if you're telling me this, you must feel, yes, we might have just met, but you must feel this sense of comfort around me and that makes me feel good about myself as well. So. So I'm here for it. Let's, you know, let's talk through this. And as long as it doesn't end in like a, you know, a massive breakdown where like, you know, she's there causing a scene and and the waiting staff comes over because they think like she's crying. Because I said something to hurt her feelings or what? You know.

 

Dr. Liz:
I got news for that right.

 

Clayton Echard:
Then it's like planes going on dates and and making women cry on them. So I, I don't. But I do. I'm not. That turned off by it. No. I really think when people open up to me it actually it opens me up to them more and I feel that I can connect on a deeper level quicker.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay, well, I will start sending people your direction, because.

 

Clayton Echard:
That is I did and I'm a professional. Don't don't put that on me. I, I give the best advice at all times. I tried, but.

 

Dr. Liz:
What about like in relationships when so like, when you are in a relationship, you know, it's a different type of insecurity that often comes up because so my insecurities in dating, like whether physical or I think that the fact that I am a therapist and a relationship expert and I struggle myself with dating and being in a relationship, have plenty of commitment issues to go around, I think that's a huge insecurity for me. Like that would almost fall into the category of embarrassing for me. A big part of why I even launched Relatable is because of that is because I found myself not being as open about the reality of like, even as a therapist, I struggle with the person sitting on the couch in front of me like I struggle with the same thing. And so I wanted to start these conversations with I mean, the irony of that is, you know, Sting giving people a hard time for talking openly about those things. And that's exactly what I want to do here. But I do see those insecurities coming up for me and not so much, I guess, when as much when I'm dating, because I probably do a good job of hiding that. But then in a relationship when maybe I get triggered by something or my abandonment issues flare up, that is an insecurity for me. So how do you think that kind of shifts for you of like your insecurities in dating versus being in relationship.

 

Clayton Echard:
As far as how am I able to.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, like, what comes up for you? I guess so maybe when you're dating, like you said, you're wondering, okay, are they actually do they actually like me or do they like The Bachelor? You know, you're kind of that's going to be different. Then you get into a relationship. You establish you had established like some trust. So maybe some of these other insecurities don't feel so prevalent. But now because you have established trust and you're feeling closer to this person, there's these other fears that start to really start to come up.

 

Clayton Echard:
yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, again, I think when you're somebody that's always feeling like you're not good enough, and again, I've got a lot better under control at this point. I'm actually, I think rounding the corner and I'm loving me for me. And I think if somebody doesn't want to end up dating me, well, then okay. Like, it's not even a matter of, boy, you're lost. No, that's that's an ego driven comments like, well, that's their loss. It's like, no, it's not their loss. They don't want to date me. Then like they'll find someone else for them. And you know, we for what it was, we had a great time dating. And so that's that I think though that yeah, I mean, when you start dating somebody and that's your insecurity of feeling like you might maybe don't always measure up to someone's expectations. Well then yeah, like once you get into the relationship, you're always going to be trying to convince that person that you're good enough for them. And the issue is with that is that you can't just live freely and happily. It's going to seem as though you're doing things for a certain motive, and the motive is to convince them. Right. But nobody should be dating somebody and trying to convince them to date. And they should just be themselves. And I've certainly been and sit in relationships like that, but it was my own self-inflicted wounds. It's like I'm trying to convince you to date me, but that's not your fault that I'm there. I'm trying. I'm doing this because of my insecurities. And so yeah, it's but it's just something where then you always feel like you're on edge and you're stressed and that stress reads and then it's like, Well, hey, you know, I feel like every time I'm around you, you're just always on edge. And it's like, Yeah, because I'm trying to convince you to date me. And it's just like that negativity. It just carries over. I that's what I've realized is if, if you have any negativity, it's never just going to stay and that part of your day to bleed into another part of your day, unless you fully address it, it's just going to continue to find its way back into it all. So that's been something that I've struggled with. And and then like comparison culture, I think social media has brought that on. But now you see guys have these date ideas and they take their girls up in helicopters. And I mean, I do that on the show, but that wasn't really my doing. But like that's where it all sudden it's like, so-and-so did this, and it's like, Yeah, but I'm not so and so. But then you feel like you have to measure up to that person, right? I have a really good friend of mine that flew in on a helicopter and proposed to his now wife in front of like a bunch of people at a camp. And it was magical that she said, yes, that guy, they got back in the helicopter, they flew over the city and then he puts it up on social media. Well, that's great. Guess you all saw that. All these girls that were like, This is incredible. And it was. But it's like, you know, that's where I think nowadays we're always trying to beat the next person. And it's just all it's like, what if we didn't have social media? Then we wouldn't be comparing. We'd spend more time focusing on what we have in front of us instead of trying to attain all the things that are around us.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sure. But since it's really not going anywhere, I guess we have learned how to manage it. And but that's a really interesting point I hadn't thought about. I think for a lot of women it's like, Well, I shouldn't say that. It's probably for for all genders that a lot of like the esthetic comparison, physical comparisons, things like that. But I didn't even think about it from that perspective of like trying to be a good enough partner. And so all of these things that are being put on social media about extravagant displays like that and trying to live up to that like that would be a lot of pressure.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, because you just start to say, well, again, if I'm trying to convince this person and I'm seeing this, they're probably seeing this and they're probably suddenly thinking, I wish my boyfriend would do this. So then you're like, okay, so I have to do this. Even though this conversation was never had, right? This is an internal dialog in my own head. And then it becomes, okay, well, I have to do something better. Okay, well, what am I going to do? I'm gonna do this, or maybe I should do this. But does she want me to do this instead? And then you just start the anxiety builds, the stress builds, and the next thing you know, I'm stressed out. And she's like, What's going on? And I'm like, Nothing. Y Well, it doesn't seem like nothing. Seems like you're stressed about something. And usually the thing that people start to get upset about, there's it's used there's usually more to the story than whatever it is. If somebody is mad because they stubbed their toe on on a chair in the house and then also they start cursing up a storm, they're overreacting and throwing stuff. It's like, you know what? There's probably something more than just the fact that it hurts on their toe that this is that was just something that opened up the wound that was already there. And that's that's a pretty elementary example. But but I've often found that that whenever I get in discussions and arguments, it's never as simple as what's at hand. It's not a matter of, hey, you know, you didn't tell me I was beautiful today. And so I'm really sad. It's like, yeah, that upset me. But it's more it's something deeper than that. There's something deeper rooted. And that's where I've realized that we all come with our past, where a lot of us don't have healed trauma. And that's something I think we all should be focusing on in this century especially, is prioritizing mental health, because I don't know if I've ever really done that, but I think we're starting to now and maybe you stand upon that. I mean, you're the one who has people coming to you. So is are we seeing an uptick in it? Is it getting better? We are on the right path. It feels that way. But I don't know if we've ever prioritized it like we do our physical health and other commitments in our lives.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And I think that the it's being de-stigmatize for sure. So there's a lot more people who are open to it. And that's what I talk about all over my social media is when we heal our trauma and when we start to heal these attachment wounds, we get to start showing up differently and relationships And even like the example you gave all of I mean, all of those examples really boils down to this insecure attachment of I'm feeling like I'm not good enough because something I saw on social media. And so now I'm internalizing all of that and making it way worse than it needs to be, versus going to your partner to say, this is what's going on and ask for some reassurance. And so I think a lot of that like the communication skills and just even the self awareness is so important. Do you know what attachment style you are, by the way? See, that's my, that's my version of flirting. Clayton And I'm that's when I'm out in the bar. I'm like, hey, so what's your.

 

Clayton Echard:
No, I find it so I find it intriguing that they have styles. It's almost like the astrological signs, you know, It's like, man, like that people try to put you I don't know, what are the styles again?

 

Dr. Liz:
So avoidant, anxious, anxious, avoidant or disorganized and then secure. If you if you don't know, I'm going to send you the quiz and you're going to have to do it.

 

Clayton Echard:
I don't know.

 

Dr. Liz:
You should know.

 

Clayton Echard:
I yeah, I just don't like to be confined to a box. So I and I don't mean to say that to take away from that that was built, that construct and that ideology. I'm sure there's obviously great value in it, but I've always been somebody that's like, okay, I can be aware of that, but I don't feel like I'm going to perfectly fall into one of these for attachment style.

 

Dr. Liz:
So I yeah you don't that so than the way this quiz works is that actually it shoots out a pie chart and so it can show you kind of like where you because you are no one is one. But what's so important about it is you have self awareness around this is how I generally show up when I'm feeling insecure and are in a relationship or I'm and that self awareness is key because that often informs then how you're going to react. So if you know, like I tend to be more avoidant and so you get triggered and now you're going to go hang out with your boys rather than have a conversation or if you're anxious, so you get triggered. And so now you're sending like text after text to try to get their attention.

 

Clayton Echard:
I don't do that. I don't do the avoidance thing. I usually attack that head on. But I think so whatever, whatever attacking head on is I would love to take the quiz to the center my way because I like to learn. So I'll definitely see where I am, where I land.

 

Dr. Liz:
I will send it your way for sure. Well, thank you for hanging out with me today, Clayton. I really appreciate you being here and being so vulnerable and talking through these things. I know for a lot of people, just hearing somebody again, like I said earlier, who has done all the great things that you have done to still experience insecurities, like it is so relatable and it really does normalize it for a lot of people that like we don't have to have it all figured out. We take it a day at a time.

 

Clayton Echard:
Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't. I'm 29 years old and I might have done a lot of things that other people haven't, but it doesn't mean I don't need the same blood. I don't eat the same food, breathe the same air legibly, no different than anybody else. And that's what I'm trying to show people is that, you know, I'm no different. But I went through this. And if I can make it out the other side, then I think it most people can make it out the other side as well, just with the right bit of support in the corner. So that's that's the goal is to spread that message.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Well, I appreciate you being here spreading the message with me. Yeah.

 

Clayton Echard:
Thank you so much for your time for said it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thank you again to Clayton Eckard for hanging out with me today. And thank you all for joining us on this episode of Relatable Relationships. Unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe on YouTube and give us a follow on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.