Relatable podcast 

Dr. Liz:
Hello, Heidi.

 

Heidi Powell:
Hi.

Dr. Liz:
Recording is Live. We are doing it. Thank you so much for coming to Hang out with me. I reached out to you on Instagram, so a little back story. I followed your story in the sense of your break ups and you staying friends with your exes, though, and that being so incredible and so not common. And I got divorced about three years ago, and he and I are best friends to this day. And people ask me about that all the time and they look at me like I'm crazy all of the time. And so I'm like, I've got to get somebody on here with me who not only like, gets it, but lives it. And so. you're. You are.

 

Heidi Powell:
Yeah. I mean, so first, I mean, were you guys best friends when you divorced? Because I have to say, with neither of my kids, I've been married and divorced twice. We were not best friends when we divorced. And so I'm super curious to hear your story. Like, what was what was divorce like and. And who. Wanted it.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Which is can definitely complicate things. So I asked for it. We were married for 18 years. We separated a couple of times in their heads. We have a 15 year old son. Okay now. And so we just and we were one and done was like we were very intentional with that. And so we do have him and he 5050 and all of that. But so I had asked for it and we so to say, were we best friends when the divorce happened? We were best friends from day one like that has always been our strong suit, is that we are always best friends. And when I made the decision of this is not working for me romantically anymore. No, I would say he did not want to be my friend in that moment. Obviously there was a lot of rejection attached to that, but as the time progressed, I think he recognized the value and I was saying Friends. So for sure we went through rough spots when the divorce first happened, but we've been pretty tight and committed to that like throughout the process. What was it like on your end then? So you're saying that's not doesn't sound like that's how it with you.

 

Heidi Powell:
So you're how long ago did you say it was again.

 

Dr. Liz:
Sorry for about three years.

 

Heidi Powell:
Three years. Okay. So you since the divorce is final or since separation, Because I.

 

Dr. Liz:
So since I moved out.

 

Heidi Powell:
Okay, so you and I are about the same timeline for my last divorce. So Chris and I split. It was June or July or August 20, 19. Okay, So you probably somewhere around there? Yeah. However, he and I, I mean, I'll, I'll get to all the things. There's a lot there's a lot to unpack. And 45 minute. To unpack it. He and I were we went through we actually did the divorce process without telling the world at all. I don't know if you know this, but we actually so we knew we were divorcing. We were going through the divorce for a year, a full year. We didn't tell the public until May 2020. Now, if anyone were to ever go back on post, we never were like, I loved him, so never. We were very strategic, very careful. But also at that time, let me just say like that time for he and I would necessary because I remember going through a divorce the first time and all that gets carried back to the kids and how hard it is for the kids. So we purposely did this in a way that allowed us the space to process divorce and get through the really hard, bitter part that comes with any divorce, right? Like that hard thing. We lived in the same home. He was in the casita. I was in the house, so we had enough space. But like, it really allowed us to process it without getting too many opinions, which can make divorce process pretty yucky and hard to like overcome. Whereas Derek and I, my first husband, so I have two kids with Derek Maddox and Marley, they're 17 and 16. He and I were married for five years very early on, like not too long after high school, I married him and that was a very difficult. So I asked for that divorce. Chris I mean, we I think he and I knew we weren't going to stay married for very long. I just. Whatever.

 

Dr. Liz:
From the public eye, I'm sure everyone is like so fast. Nate. I mean, you guys were for people who know Extreme Makeover, things like that. Like you guys were this perfect Barbie and Ken. So I'm sure that, like, the world hit you with all of that as well when you came out with it.

 

Heidi Powell:
You know, I think so. It it's interesting how the we can judge something based on how it looks instead of how worse. Right. And crazy. And I both we might look like we belong together physically. And the truth is he and I co-parent Liz better than any two people that I know. Like, he and I are so good at co-parenting. But also a lot of it is knowing what relationship you're meant to have with that person. Does that make sense? Like he and I? Yeah. And he would agree it wasn't like a you know, he it wasn't like, he broke my heart and we knew marriage was not for us. I don't know. I think he said he'll never get married again. I don't know that I'll ever get married again. I really don't. But he's definitely more of a he. He is here on this earth for a purpose. And the purpose is to change the world. And he has. He's been like this since I met him. He has a mission. And his his mission is that but also his kids. Right. And so I don't marriage I don't think is ever going to be in the cards for him because it just doesn't make sense. And I am someone who I love connection. I love relationship. And so it wasn't a good match in that way.

 

Dr. Liz:
But who initiated that conversation.

 

Heidi Powell:
Between you and real? Well, okay, so he's told this publicly, so I'll I'll tell it. Hey, it's not he. I, Chris actually never wanted to get married and the I have done I mean, I'm a different person now than I was when I married him. Like, I had a stunted emotional and mental process growing up because of this. The way that my dad was in our household was in religion. And so I have been on hyper speed, like I've evolved as a new person every five years, maybe even less. But I was a very timid, shy girl when Chris and I met and I wanted his love so bad, I would have taken anyone's life. And I'm so lucky. I tell Chris this all the time. Like, I am so lucky I found you because I was a really insecure, didn't know who I was kind of human at that point. And I am lucky like that. Your love was a love that I worked for and that together we built these amazing things because of it. And I because of his example of dreaming and creating and not taking himself so seriously and being careless on camera, like I learned how to be the best version of me, you know? So he did not want to get married. However, he has always known he wanted kids. And I was like, You're gonna have to marry me if you want kids. I'm like, Great. I'll get the guy to marry. Because I thought I could make him a hopeless romantic like me, like. Maybe if I just saw him. But it's just like he and I, it it was kind of like putting a what do they say? Putting a square peg in a round hole? No, I don't even know. Yeah, yeah. Square peg in a round hole is, is what it was for us to be married. Right. But alleviating. So he and I both knew we did therapy for three years. Every week. Every week we would even twice with working in L.A. for it and not trying to fix it. But we did it, trying to figure out what the best path was because I was terrified of being twice divorced. I was horrified of my two kids with him going through what my two kids went through with my last divorce. So it was really like, Hey, is it better for them to sit inside of something that is not good? Because you can have two really great people because we both are great people and you can be in a situation that is not good and create toxicity like two. Yeah, wonderful hearted people can actually have a toxic home life. Absolutely. The cameras don't always catch it, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Like, right. And it sounds like a big part of it was that your needs, your emotional needs probably weren't being met because of the differences in your guys's the way you show up in that way. And it sounds like he was really focused on his goals changing the world and you really crave connection and that's I talk about that all the time when when our emotional needs, when our deepest needs. Right. Are being met. We show up as the worst versions of ourselves, no matter how great of people we are. And so it sounds like that that was kind of you. You knew it was I I've put on Instagram before. Like the wrong environment will always make us feel like there's something wrong with us. And it sounds like that's kind of what was going on.

 

Heidi Powell:
You know, interestingly, halfway through his in my marriage, I we just started growing separate. We both were growing. And I actually think I became my best version of myself. And that was also the hardest part of it, which is what made it easier when he had decided was like, okay, I kind of knew and I'd been prepping myself for it right? Like one I remember him saying and he said it on a podcast. He hated who he was inside of him that I did not hate, who I hate, who I was at all. I didn't like the situation, but I have. And this happened in my first marriage too. I didn't love the relationship that my first husband and I had, but I, I still I can find happy anywhere. And I think that that part of I was in a used child. And so part of being an abused child is even when things aren't good, only being able to see the good in it and like thinking that it's good, right? And then when I step outside of it, I can be like, okay. I just But my thing is the grass is always greener on the other side. So even if something's not good for me, like the marriage was not good for me or Chris because he hated who he did, he just it, it brought out hard parts of both of us. But like, I was always like, but it's still like, even though it's not what we talk and all these people have, like, I still love it because we're best friends. Like, I just had this, like, we're great. We're, we're and I realize that it was. But now outside of it and having experienced love in a different way with someone else and also and more importantly, when you said emotional needs not me being mad, I, I spent a lot of my life trying to get my emotional needs met. I have. And I just recently over this past year, realized I am the only one who can meet my emotional needs and I'm the only one who I want to meet my emotional needs. I believe that a man or a woman, whatever, regardless, can complement me or you or somebody else. We can complement each other. But at the end of the day, I am there's like this epiphany that's like, I'm the one. Like, I am the part. Like I am the partner. Like, look in the mirror. This is the partner that I need to be for my self, right? And then everything else, you can have an interdependent relationship. But until we start believing that somebody else is going to meet our emotional needs or fill our emotional needs, we will be forever living in codependence, which right never looking good.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, and that that's exactly it. Looking for that person to complete us or to fill a void is always so detrimental. And that codependency does play such a role. I mean, the codependency plays a role in why I stayed for as long as I did in spite of knowing and the codependent. The codependency plays a role even in you being able to find the silver lining in everything, because that is survival.

 

Heidi Powell:
So you're scared. I was scared of like, what if the other side not better? Like, right, Well, this thing right here, right. 

 

Dr. Liz:
What was that. Like for you when you so when you transitioned out of your marriage with Chris and then you started dating somebody new, What what is that? I mean, I guess even Chris being introduced to your first act and then. Your current partner. Being introduced, like how was that navigated and how does how how did that go is what I'm getting. At.

 

Heidi Powell:
You know, I think if I were to go back in time, Derek and I, my first husband, we've had more of a journey, like a harder journey, and we're in a good place right now. But it's been consistently over time understanding and fully expecting that it's not always going to be great with us, right? And when it's not, I just need to keep showing up as who I am and in every way positive and we'll come around. There were some more issues that I probably shouldn't go. I don't I don't want to know. Totally. Fine. But don't let your. All that out. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I will say, like, even through that, though, there's been so much growth on everyone's part beyond it. But it was a he had a harder time with Chris. There was, there was no affair. So it's not like that. Anything, anything like that. He had a harder time integrating into I don't think he and I started getting along until my I had a child with Chris and then we sort of getting along because of some things he was going through that kind of allowed him to kind of let down his walls. And we created more of a friendship.

 

Dr. Liz:
And then he and Chris became friends, right? Like you into friends, whatever that looks like, like they were able to.

 

Heidi Powell:
Chris was really good in the middle. Yeah, 100%. Like Chris is a very he wants everybody to get along always right And so which is such a good thing because I think a lot of people in that situation, like the new man would be super. Possessive of. You know, Chris, like someone who's like, let's figure it out. So it really did work well, because I think if that my knew if Chris would have been someone who was more of an alpha or more intimidating, Derek would have had a harder time. Chris would have, and there was none of that. Right? So Chris helped soften any part of Derek that might have had a harder time with anything. Right now, the like from Chris to current. So Chris is great. Chris actually loves Dave. So Dave and I are actually not together. my God, I'm so sorry. Let me air out all of your trauma now. Yes, it's going to come out at some point. It's just one of those things I don't necessarily feel like I owe it to everybody to say, I never confirmed When we got back together, he and I had broken up for different types. Right? Looks like. But he and. I are great friends. It's distant, is hard, and we'll get into that if we want to. But he he actually still works with me. So there's still a connection with Dave and I. But Chris has been the greatest with me dating somebody new. I will say that like the greatest. And I think it would. What if it was anybody other than Dave? Chris would not have that. But I mean, poor Dave, the world. I know that man in and out, the good, the bad, the I know everything, right? The world has a perspective of him that is really inaccurate and really sad. And it's actually awesome to see his resilience through it. But Chris has been a Chris has loved him from the moment he met him. And what Chris loves the most is that Dave treats his kids like kids really, really, really well. And that's the number one thing for me then. I mean, obviously you have to treat me well, but you have to love my kids. You have to at least act like you love them as fiercely as I do. If you don't like, it's very important to me. I get that. And so, yeah, Chris has been good. But like, if you were to put some ahole in my life, Chris would have a real, real problem with it and he would not be quiet about it.

 

Dr. Liz:
How much time do you spend so my ex and I, we do family dinner every Wednesday with our kid and we do the holidays together and you know all of that. We probably spend well, according to the women who he takes on dates. We spend. Too much time together so.

 

Heidi Powell:
That I'm working on. Yeah. So you're asking me how much time I spend with her?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. So that. Yeah, it's like we get so much feedback on people's opinions. You know, a lot of people are like, that's that's really cool. Like to see it's only for our kid would not be accurate. Like Richard is just one of my favorite humans like I just adore him. He is so supportive. He's so kind. He, you know when we talk about in terms of like attachment styles and I can relate to what you're describing about your upbringing, abusive upbringing, a lot of spiritual abuse that went on. And so it's just a lot of chaos as an adult. I'm trying to figure all of that out. And Richard has been what somebody has described before as like my lighthouse. And that is so true. But but the romantic connection is not there for me in that way. And so we we get caught up in that because we do spend so much time together because we enjoy each other. But he's like currently trying to date. Good for him. He's trying to move on and trying to trying to date and people just don't get that. And so, yeah, I guess how much do you spend the same amount of time with Derek and with Chris, or what does that look like?

 

Heidi Powell:
You know, it, it depends on the phase because Derek has worked for me a handful of different times and me and Chris. And so we tend to spend more time together when we're working together, he doesn't right now. But that being said, I remember a point between when Chris and I were going through a divorce and Derek and I spent a lot of time together because the way that I see them both, they both are like brothers to me. Like there is absolutely from either of us, not from Chris or and Derek to me and me to them. There is zero sexual attraction zero. And I also know if I like had to go on a vacation somewhere and they're like, you got to bring one person and blah, blah, blah, it can't be. Dave Right. Because I would pick Dave because seeing so much, I without a doubt I wouldn't pick a girlfriend. I'm the most comfortable in with Derek, with Chris and with I just am because we have we've lived so much life together. We have commonalities in that we have kids and like no one cares about the funny, cute things that my kids do, like their dads, you know what I'm saying? And I can have some I can have deep conversations with the both of them. So when Chris and I were going through a divorce, Derek was super supportive to me and to Chris independently, like he would keep Chris and I didn't have an attorney. We just did a mediator that did the paperwork for us. And Derek was our mediate like he would. I knew he had my best interests at heart, and I knew that he had Chris's best interests at heart. I knew that Derek had his kids and like, there's just a knowing that someone he loves my kids fiercely, including Chris's kids. So he and I spent a lot of time together and absolutely not. Not even a hand graze ever happened. Like I couldn't even imagine. Right. And he's the same way. It's like a hand graze with your sister. But the Instagram I there were so many comments from people and we would laugh. And for a while it was hard for Derek because Derek, he was like, you know, I just don't like what if people think that we're too I think they think we're together. And I'm like, Well, we're not, but we're not, you know? And he I think some people thought that part of why Chris and I separated was because Derek and I there was rumors which were not even close to true. But there then came a point where Derek was like, you know what? Like the next person, if she's not okay with the relationship that I have with the mother of my kids, she's not my person, you know, And and Chris and I, we just spent an hour and a half talking last night about some of the, like you say, lighthouse type things. A lot of the trauma that is like coming up in my mind that I went through as a kid. And so Chris is someone I can have really deep conversations with. And there is zero threat with Dave. But again, like for me, I don't care if a man is upset by my relationship with my exes, I really don't care. It's not my right person if it is. And I think both of the guys feel the same way now.

 

Dr. Liz:
Women though. Yeah. So because I say the same thing and I that's all I always say to Richard. I'm like, I don't even let the conversation. Like, I'm probably like people are going to they look at me and I'm like, By the way, I'm best friends of my ex. Like, I'm like, you upset. Like, you are going to know it the second year, like. In my sphere. But for him, obviously, like he gets a lot more pushback than I do. Also, I don't I'm not trying to be in a relationship, so I'm probably that's why it doesn't bother me in the same way. But you find that women are more intimidated. Like so for Chris and Derek, the women that they do date, do they get pushback about you? Like even if they're like, even if Chris and Derek don't care, do they still hear it?

 

Heidi Powell:
To be honest, the only Chris Derek's really only dated one person seriously, since he and I and she and I were good friends and so we didn't have an issue with that. Like we were really good friends. We still are to this day. But I met him through Derek. Chris. I don't think he would ever date the kind of girl that would ever have jealousy over that I really don't like. I think their pictures are like, they would probably pick somebody like me who I just, I, I and also, I don't think Chris cares to waste time dating right now. You know, I. Am right there with him the. Best situation and this is me looking for the silver lining but I really do because I have two guys who are so devoted to their life and their kids right now. They're not I haven't I haven't had to deal with any of that in 15 years. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But like I do think of the kind of person that would be jealous, and neither of those guys would be attracted to that kind of a person. You know.

 

Dr. Liz:
I think where it gets sticky is that like, I don't think you have to be a jealous person to not love that your ex spends a bunch of time with. They're like just looking at it from a very high level logical. Obviously, you and I have very different perspectives because we do it in the way you're describing Chris and Derek being siblings. That's how I describe to people all the time. That's how that's literally how Richard and I are. Richard II are each other's family. Like we got married so young, we moved hours and hours away from our parents who neither of us were close to or felt safe with anyway. So that was fine. But it was just the two. I mean, children like we talk about it, so our son being 15 and we're like, could you imagine? And two and a half years, him getting married and doing what we did, like it was insane. But because of that, we had to grow up with each other and we had to really rely on each other in a different way. So we are for sure family, but I do think about it from the perspective of people who don't get that.

 

Heidi Powell:
Yeah, not getting that. I mean, here's the reality is I dated not not long term, but like short little bursts of men who didn't like it. And I do not like men who are like that. Like I very quickly learned that's just not for me, which, I mean, I could literally go on a vacation with either of them and Dave would be like, go for it. Because he just knows, right? Like he trust me and all that kind of thing. Now, I do think this, too, that I'll I'll add is any time my exes have dated somebody more seriously, I, I am very aware of how the other woman might feel. 100%. I am very like I, I, I think now that I think about it, we might both kind of tone it back because I don't ever want that woman to think that I'm trying to. And I have a handful of really great best friends. I really do. And so giving them this space and that just respect to like, do what they need to do and build that. Because I know for me when I'm dating a man, it's funny because like with them, I there's not when I'm dating a man though, I want that man to have eyes for me. I expect it. I 100% expect that like and if he doesn't or if there's like, I want to be, I want to know if I'm going to spend that much time and give that much. He I'm going to find the man who wants me as their best friend. Right. Right. I think of how I would want it if it were reversed. And then I kind of honor that for them. And so we've never had any issues. Usually we start connecting more after they break up. We're like, hey, you know how we see each other and all that stuff? Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Have you dated somebody? So like, I guess flipping it on the reverse side, have you dated somebody who is as close to their ex as you are to yours?

 

Heidi Powell:
No, no, I So Dave is really the only person that I dated. Seriously. And now I've had to worry about that. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
See, And so that I think about that.

 

Heidi Powell:
You worry about that at all. And but that's what I am saying. If he, if Dave was super close in spending a lot of time with his ex, I don't, I don't know that that's a relationship I care to be in because I only have so much energy but that's a good thing is we don't it's not like I'm jealous. I'd be worried. It's a I only have so much bandwidth in my life outside of my four kids and the business that I do. And so I want to know that in my spare time, the person that I am with is somebody who is I'm not like, man, you're over your ex-wife again. And now I got a way, you know, thing I don't like. He's for me, Right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Right, right. And I did date somebody who was that had it they they weren't they didn't like each other, but they spent time with each other. Similarly. So the way Richard and I do. And. I could I could understand it because I was doing the same thing. And so, like, I could get that. But I was also aware that I didn't love it, like just being completely honest, Like, I didn't love that I was giving up. Time to your point that we could have been spending together because, you know, he is with her, with them. And so that definitely. But I think there's also so, like, as you're saying, trying to be respectful about it, That's something that I try to be really aware of, like on both sides. So as as the ex, like you're saying, not trying to be like overly intrusive, but then also having the awareness. So if I am dating somebody and that they have that still that relationship with their ex that I am trying to be, you know, understanding of 100% fortunes of it.

 

Heidi Powell:
One like I am all for a good relationship but it's I guess the best way to put it is with Chris and I while we talked for an hour and a half last night, you know, we don't just go out as friends ever, ever, ever like we never up. Same with me and Derek. While he and I can have a really deep, meaningful conversation about really anything, he and I have never just hung out as friends. I think we have once. And it was in the middle and it was really awkward to like, be like, let's be friends and let's hang out. But so here I think we are. We have a really good relationship, but I wouldn't say that it's like a I'm going to go hang out when I have a boyfriend, right? I just it's. Not that I don't think that's. That is but not bad either way. It's just I don't have that. And I think too, even if I wasn't dating somebody, I would have different male friends. Now I have male friends that I am still friends with even when I have relationships, right? So that to me is different. Like I have guys that I would hang out with as a friend that are not Derek or Chris, if that makes sense. Right, Right. But part of I think why there is there is a relationship, but maybe not. I'm just going to come hang out with you. Kind of a friendship. I think it allows us to it puts us in a place where we're not we're not we're not going to fight over much, which is really great. We can keep a really there's boundaries, right? So we can keep a really great relationship around the kids and all the things with like not we're not in each other's space all the time, which can kind of interview people. So we we're not maybe we're not as close as you and your ex, but we're really great, if that makes sense.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, for sure. And me and my ex are navigating recently if we should be as close as we are. So I'm definitely not like promoting it in the way like it is the way to be. I do believe that there is a gray area. It sounds like you guys have found that gray area and that's Richard and I have been talking a lot about that lately. You know, I want him to be happy. I want him to be in a relationship. And I can't pass judgment on these women who are not comfortable with him having the relationship that he does with me. And you mentioned, you know, working with some of your ex and exes and he and I work together on a lot of stuff. And so there does become a lot of overlap. So I can respect that and I can see that we've had just a lot of conversations recently around what is this look like? Do we need a pull back so that you can move on? Because yeah, I feel so selfish of like, yes, he is my best friend. Yes, he is my safe person, but if he is all those things to me, I need to love him enough to let him be happy and let him find what he needs.

 

Heidi Powell:
Yeah, you just hit on something and there's like, what you're talking about. Everyone has, like, we're all entitled to make a list of what our ideal relationship would look like for us, right? So what my ideal relationship would look like with a man that I'm involved with on like a romantic level is different than, say, what is what I'm for me, the best friendship connection is the most important thing for me. Like that's like the number one thing. And if I feel like I can trust someone as a best friend and and I want to confide all the things to them and I want to laugh with them, I want to do that. That's a person I want to be with forever. Because the romantic flame dies down like after as many marriages as I've. Been in, I'll tell you. And I've dated a lot to it goes away. It always, always goes away. But the thing that I crave and I love the most is the person that I can be wholly myself. Like every girl who I am. Like, lay it all out there, the ugly. I can wear my laser cap at night. I can say all the things that I yeah. And to have them see me and love me for all of it and laugh and think it's cute and funny and that is Dave. Dave. Which is why it's hard for us not to be in a relationship because he loves every single part of who I am. But distance makes it difficult where my ex is like that. And if that is you and you're actually in my mind, I'm like, Man. No, don't say Heidi, don't say you are not allowed to join that club.

 

Dr. Liz:
If we had a dollar for every time we heard that we have this really close friend group you've been friends with like for years and we always laugh. So there's four of us in it and we and I still hang out with them, like in that way. And we all, they always laugh about that. When we told them we were getting divorced, they were like, You guys literally get along the best out of all of us. You guys like each other, the best out of all of us, like what is going on and people just they just don't, you know, unless you live it, you just don't get it. So I'm going to tell Richard not to listen to this episode because he's going to be like.

 

Heidi Powell:
I'd never divorced a person that like we were like, okay, we there's something that doesn't work here, right? Except for Dave. But we're not divorce, right? But like he there is that we are constantly on and off, but it's beyond the friendship thing. But there's a part of me that's like, Man, this is why I keep going on and off with the guy, because that friendship is so valuable to me, you know, that.

 

Dr. Liz:
I'm like, Yeah, how does the distance, how do you see that show up? So I guess especially when you were talking earlier, that that connection is so important to you, Is that where where it comes in or how does a distance impact you guys?

 

Heidi Powell:
So I like, you know, if Dave and I don't end up getting back together, I say I never say never. I don't know what would. Number one, we both need time on our own right now. Sure. But the distance like I if say Dave wasn't here, right. Like, I don't know, say he moved to a foreign country and whatever and he wasn't an option in the future I would not be opposed to long distance with somebody else in the future. I actually really like it now with him. There's a different situation with he and I, so I'll explain that. But I'm like, I'm somebody who never liked to be alone before. Like there's a pink song. And in it one of the lyrics is The Quiet Scares me because it screams the truth. And that was me for so many years. And something about these last few years, two and a half years, is how long Dave and I have been dating or we're dating. That quiet has been beautiful. And but I also think I'm growing. And I realized all the things about the, the the void is for me to fill and what are the things I wish I had in a partner. All right, make a list of them. And how do you better and feel these things yourself. Right? And so that moment and actually being comfortable with myself, being comfortable with my thoughts and actually loving who I am, the first time that has made distance actually a thing that I like with a man. I like being able to coordinate schedules to where we can be with my your kids for a little bit, like I have my kids for a week, but we could overlap to where we had just enough time with each of our kids. I had half the time with my kids, but then we'd have time alone and then we'd have time alone with just like no kids and us. And it was so like, I love that. I love that that could happen because I feel like those are all relationships that you have to nurture. You have to nurture your relationship with yourself first. And it's hard with someone living in state you then you my relationship with my kids is the next most important. So I need time without him and my kids, then it's important for me, he and I, to have time without kids to nurture that. And then it's important for him to be with my kids just enough and me with his just enough so that I actually really light. But distance became hard because I had like an moment with some anxiety attacks that I was having that I believe was I think I knew it was over with me and Dave and it was hard for me to accept it. Co-dependence right? And it threw me into anxiety. And I had these things that were like, you know what? What is the most important thing to me and my like, what do I want my life to look like in ten years? All right. What do I want it to look like in 20 and 30 and 40 and 50. All right, Heidi, stop focusing so much on building your business and doing these things. And let's build the life that you want. Stop focusing on traveling back and forth to. Texas. Do you see a future with Dave? And that was my biggest. And he, Dave and I have had very open conversation about it over the past few months and he his youngest is five. My yeah, my youngest is nine. And so the reality set in, I knew like when I think of my life in ten years, all my kids are going to be out of my house, all four of them. And I want to feel like I have worked toward building a life with somebody. Right? And it's really difficult to build a life with Dave when he with me when we are both independently so rooted and our kids are both the most important thing to both of us. Right. And very rooted in Dripping Springs and has to be. And I love that he is. And I'm very rooted in Arizona and it does even in weeks where we don't have our kids, I'm still homeless. My kids have a lot of sports. He's still there. And so it just it is harder to build a life with somebody who also has four kids and is rooted across the country. That's really what it boils down to with. Yeah, yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I know. And that makes a lot of sense because you have to. I agree that you do need to know the things want to need in a relationship and you have to be able to meet a lot of those things for yourself. But a big thing that I work on with my clients is for them to identify also those things in a partner so their wants their needs and their boundaries and that they write it out. They're very clear on what that looks like. And so as you're describing, you know, if, if that want or need it is to grow roots with somebody or is to be able to plan your future long term and you see all the barriers in the way to do that, I mean, that's a lot of self-respect that you are willing to take what is so good and decide to sacrifice that because, you know, long term, you know, that's not what's best for you. It's a really hard decision, but it's a really powerful one.

 

Heidi Powell:
Yeah. You know, and I do think, though, it also like I'm aware enough to know that Dave and I met very soon after he and Rachel split very I mean, there was a podcast he invited me to do a podcast with him on his then Rachel had kind of said that you can have that podcast, whatever the one that they had together. I had never listened to it, so I was just but I was passing through Texas, so I ended up meeting. It was a few months after he and Rachel split is when we met and the we didn't start dating right away, but our relationship, our friendship grew and turned into a relationship. And I think there are also some underlying elements for the both of us, like a year outside of a marriage. For me, when I was a year outside of the marriage with Chris, it still is not a lot of time, especially considering I was married for five years before a year after that marriage, I met Chris. A year and a half later, he and I were married and having a baby like there's there's not been a lot of time for me to grow. And there's definitely was not Dave was in that marriage for I don't even know how many years maybe 20 I could be wrong. 16. But I think they were together for 20 years. There's just there was no time to process any of it. Right. And there are like when I make a list of what I want in a partner. I don't know that I'll. Find the right partner, the next person I meet or the one after that. I think it's going to it takes time, right? Because every relationship we have, we get to see what works and what doesn't. And we get to say, okay, I got this that time from this guy, and then I got that over. And these are thing like, this is something I don't want, this is what I do want. So get to create what you want. Yeah, but I also don't know that I believe there's the one, right? Like, I think it's really awesome that I have gotten to have the experiences that I have with the people that I have. I think that's a part of. I think what it's really doing is making you the one is what it because you're getting to see. But yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
It is I think that well I think that view of there is the one I think is so detrimental for so many people because I think that it keeps people either either stuck in toxic relationships because they're so convinced, but this is my person because, you know, all these check mark reasons of why. And so they'll stay in spite of it not being healthy. Or on the flip side, it prevents the more avoidant people from getting in relationships because they're so picky. So it's like, nope, that can't be it, that can't be it, you know?

 

Heidi Powell:
And so when you have one, they just need to do.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I really think it holds people back. Do you enjoy dating?

 

Heidi Powell:
The idea of dating right now feels awful like now. Before, I would say outside of both of my other marriages, I was like, I'm ready right away. Right? Because there was a part of me, I think, that craved attention of men more than I do now. I just don't care anymore. Like, I don't know what happened to me, but I don't need it anymore. I think again, it was there were so many emotional voids that I was filling and I didn't even know. I had no idea. And so I was excited. I was excited to date after both of my last marriages. Now I am not there's not a part of me that I'm like, man, like, I have a lot more responsibility now. I have a business I'm building, I have my kids are at an age where I'm like, they're so close to leaving the house, two of them, and it makes me really sad. I relationship with Dave, which was great. It took a lot of energy and I'm really looking forward to having the energy for myself and for my kids and my business right now. And I feel like I've also like I'm like, okay, there's no one man that's going to save and fix everything like you thought or no one perfect guy. The next thing is going to be another couple of years of figuring it out. And then do I start over again, You know, so it's like I'm not in a rush this time. I think I was I'm not excited about it and I'm not in a rush, but I there will come a point when I am I feel like I have I have stuff to do on my own right now. Right.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. It's such a sign of healing that you aren't that the things that you are using to fill the void prior. That's not you know, that's not what you're looking for. That's not what you're searching out right now. It sounds like you're finding a lot of contentment in you and in your goals and your passions. And I mean.

 

Heidi Powell:
How about you? Are you are you dating? Are you have you been dating. Me This is where.

 

Dr. Liz:
Our producer Melissa gets. Happy. I am supposed to be dating. I'm supposed to be in this sense. We had a dating coach a few episodes ago. I was like, I didn't realize this was going to turn into me working with a dating coach, but. I'm on. Apps. Not that I use them. It's such a joke. Like I don't, you know? And then obviously Instagram, there's plenty of DMS that go on. So like the opportunities are all there but it's I, I'm probably fall in the category of like the one and so and I don't believe in the one but like I being super picky right So just being really selective like it just it takes a lot to peak my interest and because I am so career driven and I'm so obsessed with my kid, I to your point, like in order to pull me away from either one of those things, like it has to be it has to be worth it. And it hasn't been found as of yet.

 

Heidi Powell:
So I think that's really good. You and I are a little bit different in I love that you're so picky, right? I am A because of my upbringing and because of some of the things that I went through. I can love anybody. I'm not kidding you. I can actually find the good in and love anybody. So I actually it's part of why I stay away right now, because I don't want I don't want to get in with the wrong person. I just don't. Right. And I yeah, I think part of my next journey is learning to say no. Right? Right. So it's like, can you hear that echo I just started? I like. How weird. Which I can't. I can hear it. can you. Yes. My did that just starts did anything either one of you any thing Param. No. No. Okay. What. Let me try. I'm going to mute Liz. Is it gone now? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So definitely something on your in. Liz. What did your mike like? Whatever you plugged in before in the back of your computer maybe will turn those things around. You had a little trouble with her, Mike the speakers before we started. So I'm wondering if maybe not important like Jack. we're going to said it's gone. Okay. I think that's all right. So we can try to just pick up hiding where where you go. But what I was saying is, I think part of my work, because I can I can love anybody. And it's a scary thing. And I can really love them. Right. Whether it's toxic, abusive, anything I my work. I also don't like to hurt feelings. So I think my work next time is in having a conversation over an app and having the courage to not feel like I have to go to coffee with them if I don't like them right where I think boundaries. And then when we go to coffee with the right person, having the courage to say to like not go on a date with them because I am somebody who likes to make people happy, I feel like I need to like, show them respect or and it's and then, you know, after a week or a month having the courage to break up with somebody because there's I mean, I am a person that's always had a hard time saying no. Yeah. Because didn't want to be a bad girl. A mean girl. Right. Right. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
You end up in a lot of situations that obviously not wanting to be in. And to your point, really, really convincing yourself that you want to be there and that that you do, you know, you're finding all the reasons to stay and that's yeah, that takes control of the mind and a lot of ways so it sounds like we are definitely on the opposite ends of the spectrum. So maybe we should become Dating Buddies and we can like really encourage healthier behavior.

 

Heidi Powell:
I think like, no, no, you could be like, give them a try. Liz. I mean, look. At his heart. He's a good person. He really loves you. yes. All right.

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, we have some partner partnering dinner for sure. So how do you tell us a little bit just about the work that you do. And then I know you have a really cool program coming out in January and tell us a little bit about that.

 

Heidi Powell:
yeah. So I actually, you know, because I can love anybody, it's a real thing. I also have like one of my we all have gifts. One of mine is being able to see in people what they can't see in themselves. I know what people are capable of. I think you know what, They're key, but we all know what they're capable of. But it doesn't matter if they can't see it in themselves. So I yeah, I'm a trainer, but I always say I serve people what they think they want. And then I when they come in, I give them what they really need and they want diet and exercise. So that's how I bring them in. But what we serve them is the tools to actually love who they are and be comfortable with who they are and figure out why they thought they wanted to lose the weight in the first place. Were all the things. And then we heal from the inside out. And yeah, we do the physical work. But that's a byproduct that the weight loss or this shape change is a byproduct of them actually learning the real tools to transformation and self-love. So I have I have challenges that I run. I have an app again because some people think that they won't workout. I'll give you the workouts because that's where I'm trained. But we all I have this really cool five day. It's called a five day better body boot camp. We give workouts every day, but what we give more than anything is every single day I say, Give me five days for 5 minutes a day. These are people who have tried and failed and tried and failed and tried and failed. We all we've all been there, Right? And when we try and fail over and over and over, we end up hating ourselves. And we hate ourselves. We don't believe we can do anything. We're like belief less. And so my thing is, give me five days, give me 5 minutes a day for five days. Let me teach you a nutrition tip and a five minute workout super easy, and then I'm going to give you a life lesson that will have a perspective shift that will help you look at everything differently and help help the diet and exercise that you choose. Help it stick, because otherwise everything's temporary. And this five day Better Body bootcamp, we have one starting January 2nd. It's completely free and it is the most magical thing. I poured my heart and soul into it and it helps people see that they are worthy and they are capable and it helps them begin to believe in themselves again. And then the skies, I'm not kidding. Some of the transformations that we've had that started with that bootcamp are insane. Insane.

 

Dr. Liz:
That's so cool. I mean, it's really the snowball effect, right? Like you get the buy in on those real the base level of like, I can do hard things. And do. Harder things and then it really grows from there. It's a really great approach work and people find the program. Where can they find more about you in general Social Media's website?

 

Heidi Powell:
Yeah, I think the best place to go for everything. My Instagram real Heidi Powell is where I post all of those things. But if you go to Heidi Powell dot net forward slash, boy, I'm going to have you go to go to Heidi Powell dot net forward slash and get fit. Okay. That will be that enter your email and as soon as the boot camp, you can register for it. You can't register right now, but as soon as you can, I'll shoot you an email or just check me out on my Instagram. It'll be there.

 

Dr. Liz:
Cool. And yeah, we'll make sure to include the links and everything so people can definitely check you out. Heidi, thank you. So much for hanging out with me. Like it is such an honor to be able to talk through somebody again, like just who gets it and who can honor the importance of that relationship with your child's other parent. Like it. It's been such a good conversation. And I just I feel so connected and validated through this conversation. So I appreciate that.

 

Heidi Powell:
my gosh. Thank you so much, Liz. It was awesome. I loved hearing your story, too.