Relatable podcast 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Here I am, this big marriage person doing all this research and stuff, and I'm realizing just how selfish both my husband and I were. Because the whole point of me writing this book was I needed to find out if super was accidental or if there was a formula. And I really figured it was accidental. You met your soul mate and sucks to be you. Everybody else, right? Maybe your husband will die and you can do it right the second time, right? Sure. Literally, those are the thoughts I had.

 

Dr. Liz:
Me and my ex are very close and have a lot of these similarities to what you're describing, which is.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Something to reconcile you guys. That's my job.

 

Dr. Liz:
This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Hey, welcome to Relatable Relationships unfiltered. Today, I'm hanging out with Dr. Christine Bacon, relationship expert. We chat all about super couples, including what they are and the secret formula to achieving super couples status. So, Christine, how would you define a super couple? What does that mean? And then we're going to talk about how we even achieve that. But let's start with even what is a super couple.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
So it's a simple definition. When I went interviewing these couples, I had three criteria, maybe two. They had to be married at least ten years because I figured if they weren't married that many years, they still didn't get through all the garbage right there. And then they had to be. That was one. Number two, from the outside looking in, they had to have something special. So really, it's just all of us looking down to go, they're such a cute couple. my gosh. They just have something extra, you know? But then I added the third part, Liz, which was because I approached some super couples and they're like, We're not super. So from the inside looking out, they had us say, We got something special. And what?

 

Dr. Liz:
What is something special? Like, how would you define that?

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Well, okay, I'm going to throw it back at you after I kind of answer. But sure, I was always because I had a troubled marriage. So when I got married and it was good for, you know, a couple of years and then after four years when I left my husband, it was there. And I felt like it was miserable for many, many years. And so I look at those couples, no matter what was said, he'd say something that just built her up and then, you know, she would receive it. Well, it's like they never thought publicly there was this gentleness, is this love. It was really just the way that they communicated. Again, it wasn't just that newlywed You remember one or two years where you expected it. It was five, ten, 15, 20 years later. And they just are so loving with their words and actions towards each other above what we see in normal society.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Now, it just it sounds like it's a vague answer, but those are the couples I went after. I'm like, You got something different because you stand out.

 

Dr. Liz:
How did you find them really funny?

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
The first one? Well, like, I think about our. I'm the class of 83. I know you're probably not even born back then. And I remember our ninth class of 81 class couple. They were just adorable. It's like, my gosh, they just had that thing, whatever that thing is, right? So technically, they were one of the first ones back, back then. But I was I went into the newspaper, someone interviewed me because they knew I was doing this research. So they put me in the newspaper and said, Dr. Bacon's looking for super couples and kind of put a definition out there. If you know any couple that seems to have that little extra something, contact her. Two people initially contacted me. They didn't know each other. They both lived in the city of Virginia Beach and they both pointed to Gina and Duane Heisler. They they pointed to this couple, another couple pointed to them, and they didn't know each other and they didn't know that's funny. And I was like, this has got to be an amazing couple that two separate people called in to say, This is an amazing couple, right? So that's kind of how we did it. Now, the other way is I did my doctoral dissertation was humor as a communication strategy and military marriage. So just really studied humor in marriage.

 

Dr. Liz:
interesting.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
It was really interesting. And all the questions had to do with humor, except for one which simply said, rate your marriage. And it was a127 scale from extremely unhappy, very unhappy and unhappy. And then the flip side, which was happy, very happy, extremely happy and perfect. And so I had 644 people took my survey, nine of them checked off perfect. And I'm like, that was are newlyweds still having sex every day? They got no clue. Right? So I wasn't really concerned about them, but I was incorrect because when I looked at the data, those nine people were married 15, 20, 30 years. Wow. But Liz, I was more concerned with the the second column that said extreme. Emily happy before I answer, because I'm going to tell you that's where I got my super couples from. I'm going to ask you, of all the married couples in the world, you look at them, you see happy couples, right? But of all the couples that are married that you think would check off the extremely happy box, like I'm happy to go home to my spouse. What percent of couples would you think would answer Extremely happy ten. You're way more generous than I am. I was thinking like 2% right?

 

Dr. Liz:
Well, was it 35%? wow.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Right. It was like more than one out of three. And then I'm sitting at my computer crying because, you know, I'm in my miserable marriage and I'm just wishing it would get good and it didn't. And I figured I just married the wrong guy and, you know, I'm crying. I'm like, what is up look like? I just want to know what it's like to be happy, you know? But then I felt the Holy Spirit say, Go, go find out, go interview those couples. So there's a really long response to your question, but those are the people I interviewed. And then every now and then people would add to it. So I would be traveling and they go, I know a super couple in Chicago or I know a super couple here. So word of mouth.

 

Dr. Liz:
And what would you find out about? Well, first of all, okay, this is the cynic in me is that percentage, like when you talk to those couples and really sat down and had a conversation where they actually extremely happy. Yeah. Okay.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
And now they had to be I had asked that question right. I was like, so what would you rate it now? Like, extremely. And some of them actually said, because they're engineers and stuff. So if you give you 1 to 7, I'm going to say seven. But if you say perfect, you know, because it's an extremely unhappy to perfect the goal, nothing's perfect, but I would check it off if it didn't say perfect, you know, But they're like, I'd give it a seven. So I was like, wow.

 

Dr. Liz:
And what, when? What was involved in it? Like, what were some of these key attributes of a couple who identified as extremely happy?

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
So that's exactly what I asked because I went in with my own. Here I am in my forties at the time asking these little girl questions like, Yeah, one of the questions I asked was, What do you have that other couples don't? I mean, what makes you super, right? So I just put it out like that. Do you want the answer?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, absolutely.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Okay, so 100% of the men and this is what was so amazing. I went into the houses of over 50 people, right? And you usually get like 90, 95 was 100% of the men, every single man. I'm stressing that for a reason. Every single man, when I ask that question, would go, this woman. Let me tell you about her. Let me tell you how this marriage is good because of her. Now. Now, keep in mind, these weren't like young couples that were like, honey, stop it. You know, she would hear what he had to say and with great respect. And, you know, she'd be nodding. She'd go, he's cutting himself short. Like he's really the reason for this. He Yes, yes. Those things he said about me might be true for him. But do you know what he's not telling you? He's awesome at this. This this isn't this. So whenever I ask 100% of the super couples what what were the main ingredients? What what do they do? Right. 100% of the men pointed to their wives and 100% of the wives pointed to their husbands.

 

Dr. Liz:
Wow. So they praise each other. They find each other's strengths. And that's what they focus on is what what each of them brings to the table versus what each of them is lacking.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah, And that's actually kind of your tying in the super couple formulas. Sacred s c r e d i when I was putting the book together as a click or b secret or scared, but I figure sacred will sell more books and you know.

 

Dr. Liz:
Really go either way depending.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah. Yeah. So you actually in that response you gave touched on the E and the A and S, but I'll come to those because before I fully kind of go there, I also asked them did you guys ever have any struggles. I mean you didn't write, I mean like you just got lucky because okay, they may be awesome, but you never had any real problems to deal with and I was wrong because they dealt with one of them had a nervous breakdown into bankruptcy, death of a child, stuff like that. But when I asked about the negative, are you married less?

 

Dr. Liz:
I am not. I I've been divorced for about three and a half years. But I will fill you in on that story here shortly. Okay. Good. Me and my ex are very close and have a lot of these similarities to what you're describing, which is.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
So I'm going to reconcile you guys. That's my job. This is what I do. So 100% of the husbands, when I asked, Have you ever had any struggles or problems, difficulties, 100% of the men pointed to themselves and 100% of the women pointed to themselves. So this is the of the entire formula S was most important. S stood for selflessness when it was good. So you kind of touched on it, but when it was good, 100% of the couples pointed to the other and when it was a negative, they pointed to the self. And I filed for divorce. I was separated for years. So I'm feeling, yeah, I know that you're divorced. And so I said, I'll I'll talk to you to publicly or privately about why reconcile couples because in our bad marriages, when it's good, we point to ourselves. And when it's bad, we point to them. Absolutely. And we have it all backwards.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Yeah. And that is so true. I talk with so many of my clients about that exact thing. When we can't look at our role and we can't look at what we're contributing to the dysfunction because you're right, when things aren't going well, we all of a sudden we all develop this external locus of control, right? Everything is happening to us. But then when everything is going great, we point to, look at all this hard work I'm doing. Look at all these efforts I'm putting in. And I believe that you're exactly right. It is the flipping of that is to be able to point out our partner strengths and then to have self-awareness around our needed areas of growth.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah, I know that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Functioning, right? Yeah. So as I'm.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Interviewing these couples, I feel like they're making love in front of me in their living rooms. I literally Liz felt like this, like I was privy to something. And and it's like this flow and I didn't want to break what I was seeing, but I was convicted because here I am, this big marriage person doing all this research and stuff. And I'm realizing just how selfish both my husband and I were when it was good. I was like, you know, it's because I'm a really good communicator and I got my PhD in that and I do this and I it was bad. I was like, you know, my husband doesn't listen. He's defensive, he's a jerk, you know, stuff like that. And so kind of subconsciously, kind of consciously as I'm being convicted, I start coming home and doing in my own marriage what I saw them doing. Because the whole point of me writing this book was I needed to find out if super was accidental or if there was a formula. And I really figured it was accidental. You met your soul mate and sucks to be you everybody else, right? So maybe your husband will die and you can do it right the second time, right? Sure. Literally, those are the thoughts I had. But when I realized it was a formula and then I started going and being more selfless in my responses towards my husband and things that we were saying and doing and him not realizing he was a marital guinea pig, though he showed up because he's married to me right? Sure. He started reciprocating.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. Change breeds change.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
It is.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
And it took us 20 years to be miserable. And so mentally, I thought it would take like 20 years to be happy. That's just not how it works. You know, I think God is so gracious, right? Because very quickly I said something good. He did something good. I did. And it started spiraling in the other direction. And we went from unhappy to happy and, you know, two or three years.

 

Dr. Liz:
And so starting by, it sounds like putting more focus into what they what he was doing well and so put make giving more opportunity to praise that to point out being less critical and so there was a sense of safety it sounds like because that really is the foundation even for intimacy being defined as a sense of closeness. So not referring to just physical intimacy, but intimacy in a relationship is about closeness and connection. And that intimacy cannot exist without safety, and the safety cannot exist when you're constantly picking at each other and pointing out each other's flaws.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Right? Because I'm a sort of wall up. I'm not going to give you an opportunity to beat me up verbally.

 

Dr. Liz:
Exactly. And so being so guarded. Yeah. Prevents the closeness. So I love that. And that's such an applicable like first thing to change, like, you know, as people are listening to this, really checking in on how are you showing up for your partner, how are you pointing out their strengths, how are you lifting them up day in and day out? And if you're not, sounds like exactly what you did was like, where can I start and how can I just implement small change here?

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah. Again, you just crossed over to the A and the A is attentiveness. The is encouragement. So they definitely super encouraging of one another. So I can jump ahead to that if you want your mind back to the S in the A is in the encouragement. So the beginning of my book it talks about the six faulty assumptions I had. I went into it thinking they must have married the right way. For instance, I was pregnant. Then I got married, right? Yeah, pregnant, then married, then a wedding and then college. And I was told my daughters do it the opposite of me. Go to college and get engaged and get married. They have kids. It's really novel concept, you know, Please try it that way. So that was a faulty assumption. Another faulty assumption is they must have learned super from their parents. That's not true. Their parents were usually pretty screwed up. And so one of the faulty assumptions was a pessimist could not be married to an optimist. These had to be optimist, married to optimist. And when I started interviewing them lives, I found out that nearly every super couple was an optimist. Married to a pessimist, I was like, makes sense. So what's going on here? But as I just for the sake of the time that we have in the show, that one stunned me. And I'm like, What am I looking at? What am I looking at? And so my mind as I'm parsing my data and analyzing in my mind as I'm going for my runs in the morning, like I was like, wait, It's not optimism versus pessimism. It was encouragement versus discouragement. Unhappy couples are discouraging of one another. Again, I love my husband and I'm only saying this now because he knows I do this for a living and he lets me. But and I have huge faults. But one of Danny's faults was that he was super discouraging. Right, Honey, I got to write a book. well, yeah, A lot of people. You could write a book, I'm sure, And you'll do good. But most books no one ever reads. Are you going to start a business? Well, yeah. I mean, you could, but most businesses fail, and he realized he was knocking me down. Yeah, I was just being realistic. But he was discouraging everything I did. And I felt like you don't believe in me. I can do nothing. And one of the super couples I interviewed was actually a friend of mine, one of my best friends. And she said to me, You know, Christine, that's what that's Danny's job, because I'm like, I'm trying to build myself up. I have no confidence. I mean, I want to have I get this radio show and I feel, you know, and she's like, you shouldn't have to build yourself up. That's your husband's responsibility. And so super couples are super encouraging. One of them I interviewed there were the youngest super couple I had. They were in their thirties, and I remember Tricia said, or her husband is Jim, and Jim said, Tricia is the most encouraging person there is. And he said, I could come home and say, I'm going to run for mayor of Virginia Beach. And she'd be like, Wow, that's big. But you know what? If anybody can do it, Jim, you can do it. He said, She encourages me in everything. So so all that to say the s that we're talking about, selflessness in the E while similar, they're different. The selflessness was truly much more tangible, you know. Do I do I wake up in the morning and think like so I run six miles every day. So do I get up and think about my exercise? Or do I know that since my husband's going to be running out the door to do I make his cup of coffee? I don't drink coffee in the morning, so I would just go for my run. But I notice that super couples are like, Well, if I can make him his cup of coffee, I'll do it once. Super Wife woke up at four in the morning because her husband ran a radio station and she would iron his pants for him. I'm like, Heck is wrong with you. Right? So bunch of ideas on down plans right now. Like, I like my sleep. She's like, well, she goes, he like he like having his pants ironed. And I said, Well, why don't you just iron them, you know, a day or two in advance? And she said he likes to wear them warm. He liked them warm, he liked them iron. And she's like, Why would I not want to do that for him? He's he means so much to me. Well, Christie, I go to bed, right?

 

Dr. Liz:
No wonder I'm divorced because right.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
What do they do? I mean, I'm not. But I was. But it was this act of selflessness, which was, you know, each marriage was different, how they did it and, you know, did you make time to have lunch with your spouse over your best friends? And of course, you can have best friends, But my super couples are like, well, if I could be with the best friend or my spouse, why would I not want to be with my spouse?

 

Dr. Liz:
So they really prioritized each other and that they started the selflessness even being starting with how can I meet their needs day in and day out? What are even some of these more subtle needs? And so it sounds like even in your relationship, some of those being more covert jabs that would wear on you over and over and also created a disconnection. Now after all of these years of doing this work. And so you talk about your friend saying it was your partner's job to encourage you and to lift you up. And while I definitely agree that, yes, our partner, that is a responsibility of theirs, do you believe that it is solely so when you say that, you know, she said, that's not your job, that's his job. One no area of that.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah. So it's not solely his job. I mean, there's got to be this realism, you know, even if I'm about to. So let's use finances because, you know, many times you see, like a husband, men tend to be more risk taking by gender than women. So I remember one son saying, my husband was going to get into this really big venture that I did not agree with, and I didn't think it was going to be good. But in our bad marriages, we tear him down. It's like you're going to screw things up. Don't don't do that. That is bad. But in these super marriages, of course, the see in the formula, as I see already, is communication. So we can get to that. The differences between the male brain, female brain and how we communicate. So first of all, they communicate with gentleness. You cannot be a super couple if you're not honest, honey, I don't think that's a wise thing to do. Here's some of the things that can go wrong and but they would ultimately not name call or call him a moron or, you know, I'm not going to support if you do that. They put their opinion out there. Don't don't do A, B and C. I just don't think it's wise. If the spouse did A, B, and C, the super wife in this example, because it's the wife wouldn't say told you, you know, I'd be like, well, you know, not now. There's a lesson learned. We can't, you know, let's not do that again next time. She wasn't comfortable when he did it, and he was more apologetic when he did like a you know, because he was built up and again, one of the problems we have in today's society is everyone home again. You're so young, don't even know where it's going to lay with you. Is this idea that the man is the head of the household. So I'm a super alpha female. One of the thing about alpha females is we think, well, if I want my husband to be my head, does that mean I have to get weaker? Right. Which isn't the truth, you know, because, I mean, how do you do that? And so the job is super wives are better at elevating their husbands. Like I'm type A, I'm. But I will make my husband be a better leader if I'm encouraging him and still being my awesome self and doing all the things that I do. But we tend to think it's like I have to be the submissive little the Duggar family, and then, you know, woman give me a cup of coffee, you know. But it's not the case. It's my big Fat Greek wedding. You ever see it? Yes. Love it. Love it. Right. So the password tool is like, Mom, can I go to college? Why do we have to ask Dad? You know, why does he get to be the head of the household? And the mother goes to not. Well, the man is dead, but the woman is the next right. Do you remember that? You probably don't. But it was. Yes.

 

Dr. Liz:
No, absolutely.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
And so you realize, okay, so God me in the head, I can buy that. But if I'm a good neck, I'm not saying Danni or freaking moron, do it this way. I'm going to be like, you know, you're really good at such and such, but have you considered this? Or you might want to be able to. And so if you're really good, I mean, how do you think you've got Adam to bite the apple? But Danny and I joke about it. We call it the cleavage factor.

 

Dr. Liz:
You know? Right.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
But yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
And I think that I was raised very much in religion. And so the head of the household and all of that. And so I had a lot of pushback on that for many years. And I definitely identify as the alpha female as well, type-A and overachiever and all of those things. As I have matured, I've realized that I do want a man that has that more dominant energy and that can be the head. I do like that, the protector, the provider.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
We don't mind following it, right? Trust it. You're not going to lead selfishly and well to lead in a way that's good for me and my kids. Your kids.

 

Dr. Liz:
Right. And also can keep you safe. So they're willing to be the protector. So, yes, selfishly, is part of the concern. But then also that they're not going to be passive because as soon as a man is passive with me, like I'm going to take the reins. Right. That is just that's how I was wired to keep myself safe. And so I'm completely fine doing that. But when a man can demonstrate that he has the ability to be assertive and to be the protector and provider, then I am happy to allow that to happen. But and I think what you're saying is exactly right. It is my job to encourage and to lift him up so that he can be with him to do that.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Right.

 

Dr. Liz:
Tear them down safe, right? Yeah. And so again, comes back to safety on both sides.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Well, and it touches what you said earlier. I just did a video, a video short on my website, the other breakfast for pagan dotcom. But it's talked about how do you really make a woman feel safe? Because most of us strong women is like we have zero problem following a man. If the man is leading in a direction that we feel is, like you said, keeping us safe. But it was safety doesn't just mean are you going to push me out of the way when the bus is coming and take the hit? I want to feel safe. I have had so many women because I see my clients lately in my office say I don't feel safe with my spouse like it was this one couple where the mother they were husband, wife in a car. Wife and son and daughter and son in law in the backseat. Right. And the mom and the daughter were having a fight arguing about something. And at one point the daughter said, you're such a bit right, Shout it out to the mother. And the husband did nothing. He didn't defend her. No. Whether or not he agreed with what the mom and the daughter were arguing about was irrelevant. His job, his role was to say, Don't you ever speak to your mother like that? Don't cheat ever. Because that wife then felt like she wasn't protected. Yeah, she said, Well, you threw me under the bus. You didn't protect me. I'm not safe. You're supposed to be my knight in shining armor, period.

 

Dr. Liz:
And even I think what a woman brings to a man when maybe she's having a rough day, she's having a hard time, she's overwhelmed. She's stressed in his ability to show up for her in an emotionally safe way is also another key indicator here. And so when maybe a woman is feeling irritable, she's feeling overwhelmed. And so she's not showing up as her best self. Does he have the ability to take a step back and see, okay, I can see where this is coming from. And this is not to condone emotional abuse or to condone that she's allowed to be an asshole and he just has to take it. That's not the point. But is he able to see it for and vice versa? You know, it goes both ways. Are they able to see it through a different lens? But they're having a hard day. They're having a hard time. I can be safe. I can hold space for this verses. Well, they're throwing jabs, so I'm going to throw them right back. And I think that that is also when I've talked to my women clients about what helps them to feel safe. That's a big part of it. To know that the emotional intelligence exists, to be able to validate, reflect and explore her experience.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
But that emotional intelligence can change. Your IQ is set and approximately 18 years old, 16 years old, and you're pretty much where you're going to be. IQ can go up. And so I always say IQ is intelligence. IQ is wisdom, right? Yeah. So are you are you humble enough to say, okay, I need to grow in wisdom here? So just to make sure we have that first clarification. So right, we are in this feminist dominated society. And one of the problems is, is we have beat men down as a society saying things like toxic masculinity. Well, what the hell is that? What? I want my husband to be masculine. I don't want an effeminate man, but they out of love for us, out of respect for us, have been taught, Well, maybe I need to back off and let her do it and then help in this disorder. So even when men want to be assertive, they don't feel safe to be. Because even if in their own marriage, they feel safe, they walk outside in public and someone's at a restaurant going, That's abuse. That's you should be offended that your husband did that. He shouldn't open the door for you. You can do that yourself. So so men are kind of like and I've had these. Should I pull her chair up? Should I open a door?

 

Dr. Liz:
I don't.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Want her to be mad.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. So it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. And as a mother of a son, I, I feel that a mother of a teenage son who's recently starting to date. And we have those conversations too, that men are really put into a box of one or the other versus really the man that we want, as you're saying, is masculine, but is able to step into his femininity and is able to step into that safety. But I agree with you that as a society, we were really fucking men over in that way. And it's really unfair.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah, and I don't want to even say stepping in is femininity, although that's how society tries to say it, right. You should be feminine and like, no, you can be loving and tender and that's masculine. So yeah, one of the issues that men have and so it's, it's not innate. So I've been teaching them, it's like, okay, your wife flaking out, She's just had a rotten day and she's even actually railing on you. The natural instinct for the man, more so than the woman, but for us as well is to pull back. It's like, okay, she wants her space and we give her her space. She's in a bad mood. I'm going to leave her alone. And what I tell guys to test this, like scared to death, right? So when she's like, I can't, you know, all that, I'm like, I want you to lean in physically and I want you to grab her and put her in your arms and hold her even if she's like, Ooh, not now. There are some situations where, like, you just had a massive I just called you a whore and you just call me on a side. But if you don't.

 

Dr. Liz:
Lean in at that moment, I.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Might not want and you might have a knife. But, but if it's just a genuine she's screaming it. I bet every day my boss is that he had the nerve to do right. And you see your wife turning into The Exorcist. And I said, just to test this, lean in and hold her, because what she's looking for is, like you said, safety. Yeah. And so, again, she might pull away at first because she's not used to this response. And your response is to run, but that's exactly when she need you most. And then I also talk about the nerve endings on her backs, all the tons of studies about the oxytocin production. So, you know, you hold someone and when you're rubbing right up their back, it's hitting all these nerve endings that produce oxytocin, which is called the cuddle hormone, tend to befriend. It draws you closer to the person. Men have it as well. Women have so much more of it. When we produce oxytocin, we're so much nicer. So I'm like, just hold her. And and there is a bonding, there is a calming and there is a I do feel safe. And so most of the time when men do it, it's like, okay, Christine, but if this doesn't work, I'm calling you, right? You're being held accountable. Right? But they have done it. And my own husband and the PhD in communication here and rubbing it in again, Right. I'm the Super Cup author. I even had to tell him that's not what I need. You didn't pull away from me. I need you now to hold me, you know? And so he was like.

 

Dr. Liz:
Terrified, but okay.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
But he started doing it, and he's like, I'm here. I'm here for you. And I was like, This is good. So glad you could. I could get mad if you walked away. You know, it's worked. And it said, I love you. I don't understand. I don't have the right words, but can I hold you to show you I'm here for you.

 

Dr. Liz:
And that is exactly. Yes, what I'm referring to. Even when I talk about the you know, the feminine energy and from the feminine, feminine masculine polarity, you know, that's the whole. You're familiar with that. I'm sure that is a lot of modern, maybe even pseudo psychology around that. However, that's exactly it. Because I think for men, either they want to withdraw or they're going to try to fix it, and that is it's one of those two versus just let me just hold you in this. Let me just hold space for your experience in.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
My Myers-Briggs, the time for me. So your listeners, viewers that aren't it's the personality. It's the most popular personality test in the world and it's these dichotomies, extrovert versus introvert, sensory versus intuitive thinking versus feeling and then judge versus perceiver. So you can have two extroverts marry two introverts. And by the way, it's a continuum. So you can kind of both be somewhere on the line. The only dichotomy broken down by gender is the thinking feeling. Statistically, 66% of men prefer the thinking function doesn't mean they don't feel, and 66% of women prefer the feeling function. And of course, why actually doesn't think I'm like, Let me punch you in the mouth first. But yes, I think men feel right. But I you know, I have a deep faith. And so I look at this and I'm like, God, could have made us alike. But I think he purposely made us different a thing or just irritate us, right? No, But so I would have to learn, you know, if the two become one. My husband's responsibilities are to shave off my rough edges and minor to shave his off. So that thinking feeling is really a decision making function. And if I'm like, well, the kids are really I mean, I know I said that I'd ground them if they didn't make their bed, but, you know, they've really been getting along was like, no, that's a decision based on feelings. And the man might be like, you told them A, B, and C, So bottom line, first people. Second is either one of those decision making means better than the other. No, but if you're a thinker, Mary Jo feel. And by the way, when both of my daughters got married, they were both the opposites. They were both thinkers in both their hearts.

 

Dr. Liz:
I was going to say, Yeah, this is that would be the gender norm, but not always the case. I'm gonna the thinker. Yeah, but.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
If. But what? What is your husband? What was your husband? Because almost all thinkers are attracted to a feeler.

 

Dr. Liz:
And he was a feeler.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yes, absolutely. Exactly.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, it is. And that's like it's the anxious avoidant dance as well that we see. Right. And there's there's so much critique that goes into what happens when an anxious and avoidant end up together. But it truly is the anxious and the avoidant that need to end up together so that there is is the pursuer. It balances it out because if you think about to avoidance, that can't be a thing They're not going to engage in to people who.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
May end up getting divorced because they haven't resolved any conflicts.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, they they haven't probably talked in vast majority of their entire marriage and then to anxious people as a complete cluster. And so, yes, obviously there's areas of improvement and growth that have to take place with the anxious and the avoidant. There's also a lot of strength and value in that dynamic because they can push and pull and draw in to each other when needed.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah, I call them the stuffers and the escalators when it comes to like conflict because all of these things you're talking about, they're fine until we have conflict and that's when it manifests. Yeah. So the Stouffer's will stuff it in and the escalators like I'm going to tell you everything I'm upset about and when I do this, this activity that I do with them, I have the staffers on one side, the escalators on the other. And then the stuff is like, what is one thing that really annoys you about the escalators? It's like, get in your face. It get too high for too emotional. Okay, What is one thing you escalators you get annoyed by the the Stouffer's is like well they don't say anything. You never know when they're mad. So then I go, okay, so what is one thing you appreciate about each other? And then the staffers would say, Well, at least with them, we know what the issue is. At least they'll address it. Because if if they don't, nobody will. And then the escalators say the same thing. The one thing I appreciate about the Stouffer's is that they keep their emotions in check. I'm like hot and they're like, chill and so when you start realizing that there's pros and cons with both of your styles of communicating slash conflict handling, you come to what the middle ground which you had alluded to earlier, which is being an assertive communicator, we don't want to be aggressive because then that only meets my needs. We don't want to be passive because that only beats everybody else's needs. Assertive communicators balance your needs and my needs. Go on what our was. Yes, that might be how you feel, but here's how I feel. So if we can be assertive, i.e. balancing both people's needs, conflicts get resolved and relationships remain intact.

 

Dr. Liz:
Because clear is kind, as they say when we have clarity around how we're feeling about something, we can communicate that openly and honestly, but also be able to sit and be reflective to what we're hearing. You know, the nonviolent communication model really taking turns between giving and receiving and then really sitting with that, though, and listening so that you're really hearing what is being said, not formulating your next thought process. That is when conflict is resolved, because really, really, you guys are going into it as a team like let's face the conflict together versus a you versus me thing. I want to, though, ask you real quick, what is the sex life of these super couples and how does that play a role? And I.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Ask them that question to it and they're like, well, these aren't the questions we expect you to let.

 

Dr. Liz:
Us. And I didn't sign up for this.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
But they were like, So they said, I'm trying to think of like a mass way, especially when they were older. So they'd been married 20, 30, 40 years. They were like the sex. The sex was all about how you love me. So I remember one couple. I'm not going to name their names. They're like, We're older now and we can't make love like we used to, but there is a tenderness and a maturity because he knows me and my body and. And I can't do what I used to do. And I know his. And so they've incorporated like this, you know, the emotional intimacy. And the sexual intimacy is just so powerful. They say that sex is better over time. Yeah, I hear even if it's less frequent and even if it's less, you know, fully, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? The typical penetrating like the typical.

 

Dr. Liz:
sure.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
We have penetration and climax. We finish. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes if they don't have climax or if they don't, but they're like the love because this person knows me and I feel their love just by laying here and and doing what they can do. Yeah. So, you know, sex is all about the heart first. And that's why this hookup culture is so, so sad to me. So horrible, because the very thing they're seeking is the very thing that they're pushing away only to reach climax, which lasts for all of, you know, 2 minutes. Let's give them 20 stops. Yeah, right. You know, so you get the climax, you're done. And as soon as you're done, you lay there and you're like, What the hell did I just do? And who is this person? And then the embarrassment sets in. But if you've made love to your spouse and you've just had climate sex, you well, oxytocin increases with ejaculation. So for men, that is the one point in their day that they will have more oxytocin than any other time. So ejaculation is great for the guy and it's about the only time that he'll want to cuddle. But because his body is not used to oxytocin, it causes him to fall asleep immediately. So I'm like looking at your ladies and saying, Don't get mad at him if he falls asleep right after or he doesn't want to talk because he just feels great because he just ejaculated.

 

Dr. Liz:
Okay.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Because of the change of scene also, that's when it's like, That was wonderful. Let's talk about our dreams and our futures. And it's like, you know, it's becoming what you know, but understanding of each other. Once I understood that about my husband, I wasn't thinking, What a jerk. You go, What you want, and then you're. I never thought that about my husband, by the way, because we never struggle there. But it's like, you know, this was good for him and his body is doing this. And so you study each other and you love each other and you so the formula as I see are two RS respect. And you again, you alluded to everything and that's what it is. I respect our differences. I respect that you're a male and I'm a female and we're not the same. And you're trying your hardest to please me regardless. You know.

 

Dr. Liz:
The emotional intimacy piece of that which I love. So this whole formula really boils down to emotional intimacy, which is very much what I referenced when I talk about how to improve physical intimacy. It has to start by improving the emotional intimacy. And I really do agree with you when it comes to the hookup culture and really the toll that that takes on a lot on a lot of people. And while, you know, that's not about sex shaming, like people have the right to do what they want to do. However, from a psychology and a biology and from a scientific basis, there is a lot of void and a lot of emptiness that comes along with hookup culture. And to say that sex is physical intimacy or physical intimacy of sex is simply not the case, because that is not what intimacy. And so I love really your formula boils down to how do we develop emotional intimacy so that when we do have our sexual experiences, we also feel safe and connected doing that as well. And so it doesn't matter if it's this circus and, you know, whatever you end up doing or later in later years, it is a lot more mild and just it's more low key experience. Regardless, the connection and the intimacy of intimacy is the same because that safety and connection has been established.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Yeah, the D in the formula is deliberateness. I looked at one couple. I mean, I asked them all, but I looked at one couple and I said, Did you guys just wake up? Selfless? You're so you're so you both put each other's needs first. And the girl's name was Brooke. And she goes, Now, Christine, we're human. We're just as selfish as anybody else. She said, But I realized if I'm going to be with this man for the rest of my life, I need to wake up and find out how can I please him? What can I do today that is going to bring our marriage closer together? And so the idea is deliberateness. They would wake and intentionally think about how can I be selfless? How can I that it was attentiveness. They pay attention to what their spouse does well and not so much what I do poorly. How can I pay attention to what my spouse is doing for me and not his areas of flaws? How can I communicate better? How can I respect him better? Encourage him better, or her vice versa? And so the D, which was deliberate, meaning you really have to practice at it. The good thing was that over time it became habitual and it really wasn't as much of an effort. And Super Couple said this as well. It's like it's kind of an effort in the beginning, but it becomes natural like a river over time, and that's it. Intimacy you're talking about. It's absolutely I know what you're thinking. I know what you're saying. I don't have to ask you. And there's just so much peace in knowing that I can look at my husband and knows what I'm thinking and we can go make a decision just like that.

 

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. And, you know, we've based most of this conversation or pretty much this whole conversation around heterosexual couples. You and I both are heterosexual. And so that's how you know and I know a lot of your research is based on that. But I just want to say for our listeners of all different sexual orientations, genders, lifestyles, this content is applicable across the board. And so really that deliberateness, the respect, the selflessness, the all of that applies no matter your relationship situation. If you want to have a strong, safe, connected relationship, it requires intentional efforts towards that. So I just want to put that disclaimer out there because it really is applicable across the board.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
I actually do other classes and I realize that the super couple formula was applicable to I do like the super customer service rep, the super leader, the super, because think about it as a boss, the formula selflessness. If your boss puts your needs before his or hers, you're going to be a happier employee. If your boss is paying attention to what you do well, though he or she has to pay attention to areas screwed up because of the bottom line. Right. But like you know what? You're really good at what you're doing here. We're going to work on this area there. But I really appreciate you do great here. Communication. If your boss pays attention and communicates in a way that's more edifying or in a way that recognized either that gender differences in communication respects you, encourages you and is deliberate, this formula applies there. This formula applies to your relationship with your sister or your brother. This applies to your children, your relationships. Yeah, because I can respect my children even though I'm the boss of them. Right. And so, yeah, it's a fantastic formula. And I was like, This is put on hold for thyself. Yeah, yeah. Good work. Good. Yeah. It's a great book for great book. Sorry, I'm talking about myself like it's great book because these companies were great and they let me into their lives.

 

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I mean, it is. I love that. It's so applicable, it's so relatable. It's anecdotal at the what you're pulling from is real life experiences, which is what I love to pull my information from. And a lot of it is personal. And and I think that that is where the best information comes from. Really lived experiences.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
So I love watching these couples. Sorry. Yeah.

 

Dr. Liz:
No, no. I really appreciate you being here. Where can people find your book, your super book, and where can they find your website? And on social media, everything like that.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
So any where books are sold, Books-a-million Barnes and Noble, Amazon. You can go to my website, Breakfast with bacon dot com. I have a podcast when of course, when you marry a guy whose name is Bacon, your show is going to be called Breakfast with Bacon.

 

Dr. Liz:
Clearly love it. What other options you have.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Right? My mate name is BLOCK and so it's like breakfast. The block wouldn't have been as much fun. Do you want a fun little tidbit? My sister in law, my Danny's brother, Steve Bacon. You want to know who he married?

 

Dr. Liz:
Yes. I was trying to think for a second, but go for it.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
He married Yvonne Berndt. She is now. Yvonne burnt bacon. Yeah. It's not even a.

 

Dr. Liz:
Joke that she had a knife in it, right?

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
She didn't though. So we tell her what race. But yeah, I know right so breakfast with bacon dot com you can get my book and you can find all the rest of the stuff but that's pretty much where you can find me on Instagram, Instagram, Facebook, Rumble. So breakfast with bacon. You can also find Dr. Christine Bacon. But no one remembers that there was like that breakfast with Bacon lady. So yeah, get a copy the book. But what I give this out to people as they get married, not because I'm like, look at me. It's because these couples saved my marriage. All I did was have the privilege of putting what I saw in their love and their living rooms together and seeing the formula. So if you want and I've had people post reviews saying, if you're divorced, read this, you'll learn why you messed up and maybe can fix it If you're if you're happy, but you're not extremely happy, get the book. If you are dating and you want to be a super spouse, this is a formula that is timeless because when should you not be selfless? Once you do not pay attention to what people are doing well, why should you not communicate that? You know? So yeah, breakfast with bacon dot com but you can get engaged.

 

Dr. Liz:
Important skills. Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here and so many applicable takeaways and yes, go get the book. Such good information. Thanks again, Christine.

 

Dr. Christine Bacon:
Thank you. God bless.

 

Dr. Liz:
Thanks, Dr. Bacon. That was super. And thank you all for hanging out on Relatable relationships unfiltered. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Sign up for my newsletter and find me on Instagram at Dr. Elizabeth Fedrick.