Relatable podcast 

Episode 1: the power of self-discovery with nick thompson

Dr. Liz chats with Nick Thompson from Love is Blind Season Two about the power of self-discovery and how his therapeutic journey has transformed the way he views and interacts in relationships. Nick shares about his very relatable upbringing, and relational history, and discusses how they have impacted his attachment style and patterns in relationships. Nick also shares about the therapeutic work he has been doing to heal his attachment trauma, as well as his progress towards healthier relational behaviors.

Transcript:

Nick Thompson:
What I really realized going through high school, I actually met someone and she had anxiety and I had never seen anyone name it and I had never seen anyone talk about it. And I had never been explained to what a panic attack was until then. Freshman year of high school.

Dr. Liz:
This is relatable relationships, unfiltered. Welcome to the first episode of Relatable Relationships Unfiltered. I'm Dr. Liz. I've been in the field of psychology for over ten years and working as a relationship expert for a large portion of that time. Sometimes it can be really awkward and uncomfortable to talk about certain relationship topics, but my passion to normalize these topics because in spite of our differences, we as humans are a lot more similar than we realize.

Dr. Liz:
I'm so excited to get these relatable conversations started. My first guest is Nick Thompson from Love is Blind Season two. Nick is an activist who also works as a software marketing executive and hosts his own podcast, Conversations with Nick Thompson. Nick is here today to talk about the power of self-discovery and how his therapy journey has truly transformed the way he looks at relationships.

Dr. Liz:
Hey, Nick, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm so excited for you to be here on my very first episode of Relatable. I'm grateful for you.

Nick Thompson:
I'm excited to be here, too. It's nice to see you again.

Dr. Liz:
Yes, you as well. So when I was on your show recently, conversations with Nick Thompson, we talked a lot about attachment theory. We talked a lot about relationships and really your experience, your healing journey, your experiences that you've been having. So today I really want to talk about, like the power of self-discovery, because that was a pretty profound conversation that you and I had on yours about the attachment theories and how that's influenced your perspective of relationships.

Dr. Liz:
And so that's really where I want to go today. I'm before we do that, tell us a little bit about Outside of the Love is blind personality that we all know and love. Who is Nick Thompson?

Nick Thompson:
wow. We're hitting the ground running. Okay. You know, I am very, very much a professional the way I work in marketing. And, you know, that's a big part of who I am. And then even, you know, love is blind. It's become a part of who I am. But at the core, like I am a kid that grew up in the Midwest suburbs of Chicago.

Nick Thompson:
I grew up relatively lower middle class, and I like to spend a lot of my time thinking about how we can make the world a better place. I also spend a lot of time reflecting on myself and thinking about how I can become a better person, a better version of myself. And at the core, what I hope to do, especially having you know, a little bit of a platform now, is really take the things that I'm learning day to day and really help hopefully help other people apply them into their everyday life because I get to do it on the grand stage of the public.

Nick Thompson:
And so, you know, in some sense, I think some of these learnings are actually applicable to the everyday life, you know, because you you have to survive almost some of the scrutiny and some of the challenges of being in the public eye. And then additionally, I'm a dog dad. My little buddy is right down here. His name's Grayson.

Nick Thompson:
And, you know, I like to spend a lot of time, you know, walking him, playing with him. It's a good way to to keep me grounded. And ultimately, I am trying to use ideas to change myself, change the way I think. And then, of course, hopefully change the world one person at a time.

Dr. Liz:
Yes, I love that. And that's such a huge part of what your podcast even is and why I was so drawn to being a part of that with you. It's really about these conversations. It's getting to know people at their core and everyone is so similar, yet so like unique. And it's that really that contrast is a lot of what you do with the podcast of really getting to know people.

Nick Thompson:
And that was the big point. So I've wanted to have a podcast for ten years. I thought ten years ago it was going to be about fantasy football because, you know, I was, you know, in my mid-twenties and that was what was important to me. It was fantasy football and and sports and working and like figuring out what I'm going to do with the rest of my life.

Nick Thompson:
But the point of this podcast was really for me to realize, like there's a lot of stigmas and they're around a lot of different topics. There's stigma around mental health and wellness. There's stigmas around overall health fitness. There's stigma around holistic health. I'm a big proponent of holistic health. I do a lot of DIY projects myself just painting my wall, but specifically like I make my own condiments, food, you know, health care tools like toothpaste and lotion and all sorts of fun stuff like that.

Nick Thompson:
And ultimately, I wanted to give a space where people can talk about things that maybe they're not comfortable talking about, or maybe they have an expertise on that they can share. And then I can just play the role of sort of facilitating the everyday person wonder who may wonder about these things and not have access to that information or that expertise.

Nick Thompson:
And then at the same time, we can then remove stigmas because we have humanity to people who may otherwise not be viewed or shown as human. And one of the stories that I share all the time, and I may have even shared it with you at some point is, you know, I think about like homeless people and they're invisible.

Nick Thompson:
They are invisible. People walk by them. They don't pay attention. You know, I personally try to acknowledge every one of them, even if I don't have anything that I can give them or do for them because they're human beings. And that's at the core what we all are. We are all human beings. So let's not let the media, let's not let stigmas divide us.

Nick Thompson:
Let's create spaces where we can talk about things that really truly matter and listen to each other. And that's what I'm trying to do with the podcast. And I feel like that's a mission that aligns with my character and my values.

Dr. Liz:
And I love that. And I think that's a big part of why you and I hit it off so quickly in the way that we did. Because even with Relatable, that is such a the foundation of what you're saying, having these conversations that people are either uncomfortable talking about or are not likely to talk about and bringing it down to that human level, that we are just all human and we all have struggles and we all have setbacks.

Dr. Liz:
And these things that we don't talk about, and especially being in the social media era where everything is a highlight reel and everything is about how great everything is, there's not enough conversation that just normalizes the everyday struggle and the relational struggles. And you know what? The mental health struggles, all of that. So I love how much our missions align, and I'm really grateful for you being here so we can talk more through that.

Dr. Liz:
I want to talk about your your healing journey, so really specific to your healing journey through relationships. When you and I chatted last time we had talked about you made a decision at a certain point of like, I need to get in therapy, I need to start working through some things. And it's been quite the journey for you since then.

Dr. Liz:
Can you take us back to like that initial decision, whether you remember this moment or just this season of life, what led to you really deciding like, Hey, I've got to figure something out here?

Nick Thompson:
I grew up in a dynamic that was really not open to talking about your feelings and that was not, you know, and I always I struggle to find the right words because this is not a dissent. My family, this is kind of defend my friends or anything like that. Things were different. I grew up in the nineties and I just remember very much so.

Nick Thompson:
My parents separated when I was five years old and I just started getting these feelings that I now know were depression that then I thought there was something wrong with me. And then, you know, as time went on, I just, I would just have these like bouts of just incredibly hard times. And there was no reason for I'm like you.

Nick Thompson:
It wasn't, you know, and there was some stresses as a kid and, you know, a broken family being all this, having two sisters, feeling responsible for things that I didn't necessarily need to. And what I really realized, going through high school, I actually met someone who became my best friend all through high school and most of college. And she had anxiety.

Nick Thompson:
And I had never seen anyone name it and I had never seen anyone talk about it. And I had never been explained to what a panic attack was until that freshman year of high school. And so growing growing up, too, I went to a Catholic school all the way until high school. So high school opened up a whole lot of new worlds for me.

Nick Thompson:
But as I was going through high school and I was getting, I guess like an understanding of, Hey, you can talk about these things I first started feeling as having, I think, everyone in high school, but like I started getting like really long, drawn out bouts of depression. And so I think I was 20 or 21 years old the first time I stuck out therapy.

Nick Thompson:
And my goal was to really, like, name it. And I know that sounds silly now, but like just being able to go somewhere and have someone say, You feel this, you suffer from depression, that's okay. And I guess I was seeking to name it because I feel like when you name something you can you can then talk about it, but if you don't name it, you're in this like ambiguous space where you're like, What is this?

Nick Thompson:
Why am I feeling this way? Should I feel this way? There isn't anything particularly wrong in my life. You know, I'm I'm doing this well, but like this feeling set with me. And so I had I had gone, I think, probably about two years then. And I honestly I don't remember why I stopped if I'm being honest, but, you know, I was on some I tried different antidepressants, learn different coping mechanisms.

Nick Thompson:
And then, you know, in my mid-twenties, I didn't I didn't really have a therapist. I moved to Chicago. It was a new space. And then in 2016, I realized, like these feelings have not gone away. Some of my coping mechanisms weren't working anymore. And so I literally the this is so silly. His melody is very ironic. But I Googled and I found my therapist in 2016 that I still see to this day, and I found her on on Google and I'm like Psychology Today or something, one of those websites.

Nick Thompson:
And I just like, got this feeling. I'm like, she's going to be the one to help me. And so I started going, I've gone every week, every other week, sometimes multiple times a week, you know, ever since then. So it's been about six years now.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And that's I mean, so many people can probably relate to those feelings. I know, like, even as you're talking, I could completely relate to is probably middle school, early high school that I really started to get these depressive symptoms. And because my family that as you're describing we we don't talk about feelings. We don't talk about emotions unless they're happy ones.

Dr. Liz:
And so they're just was no space to have those conversations. And so I mean, similarly, it took me well into adulthood for me to even recognize what was going on, even even with this career in mental health. Right. I'm like me depressed. What? But having that realization and I love how you say that because naming it, it's now no longer this vague, ambiguous, like, what's wrong with me?

Dr. Liz:
It's like, okay, this is what's going on. And millions of people experience the same thing.

Nick Thompson:
And it's okay. It's okay to have that. And I felt growing up in a little literally like I actually thought about this today, growing up, going growing up Catholic, going to a Catholic school. And things are probably different now. I'm no longer consider myself Catholic, but there were certain things you didn't didn't do. You would and would not say.

Nick Thompson:
And for that environment, it was very challenging to actually know how to properly express myself. When you're a kid or a teenager, you don't know anyway. So you know, and you, in the best case scenario, you have no idea what you're doing. So I felt them, you know, like it kind of set me back a little bit on the comfort level in talking about it.

Nick Thompson:
But to your point, it's not it's not even like our parents or our families thought like our society was telling your you can't do this like in or you can't talk about this. And so from from my perspective, I feel like there's a lot of people that grew up that way. And listen, it's a journey like I still get.

Nick Thompson:
I'm forcing myself to talk about it a lot more now than I ever have before because I, I, I know that I wish I had someone that I that was comfortable talking about it when I was young. Like my friend from high school.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And like you're saying that you know, you're saying as kids, we we don't know how to talk about it anyway, but let's compound that really with then we didn't even have role models for that because obviously our caregivers, caregivers didn't either. And so they didn't have a template either. And so that has just this intergenerational trauma that's come along with shaming emotions and shaming experience is outside of pleasant.

Dr. Liz:
You're absolutely right that it has been something passed down, but that didn't make it any easier on any of us. Right. It's still the the impact of it was still just as detrimental. When at what point did your mental health journey switch and and maybe it didn't fully but switched to more relationship focus. So even when you and I were talking about attachment theory and stuff, when did all of that start to come to light for you?

Nick Thompson:
So I actually had a the trigger for me to go back to therapy six years ago was actually a struggling relationship. And I knew that my depression was impacting that relationship. And she I had never told anyone about it. I kept it in, you know, from friends, from family, like I kept it in. I didn't really tell anyone and what my coping mechanism, which I knew was unhealthy, was I would just disappear when I was depressed.

Nick Thompson:
I wouldn't respond to texts, I wouldn't make plans. I'd be wishy washy if I wasn't sure how I was going to feel. And, you know, that became my coping mechanism. So there would be times when I would spend, you know, an entire weekend, you know, in bed essentially. And, you know, I knew that there's things that go with that sort of depression.

Nick Thompson:
And it's it's a lack of will to do anything. Everything feels like it's the biggest task in the world. You know, your intimacy goes down as well, which I don't think we talk enough about that, especially for men in this culture. But when I'm depressed, like, the last thing I want to do is have a physical relationship with anyone, whether it's whether I'm single or whether I'm in a committed relationship or even even married.

Nick Thompson:
It's a difficult thing to talk about because there is so much society around it. I think we do need to talk more about that, but these were impacting the relationship and there were other things too. Like it wasn't just happened. I was like, this is an opportunity for me to try again and to be completely transparent. I got a little turned off and frustrated initially too, and this wasn't why I stopped.

Nick Thompson:
I stopped. I remember why I stopped, but like I tried so many medications and nothing was working and they were all making me feel not like myself. And so I really wanted to be like, you know, I don't think medication is going to work for me. I have to put structure in place. I have to put I have to learn best practices.

Nick Thompson:
And also ultimately, like, I need to be comfortable with myself because if I'm comfortable and calm and I have inner peace with myself, I don't have to worry about what other people think about me. I don't have to worry about whether or not I'm doing the right thing or if people are going to say this or if I don't come to this or do this, or they're going to think that or God forbid, someone find out that I get depressed.

Nick Thompson:
Like those were the feelings that I was having. It was almost creating like an anxiety that, you know, I realized I had the whole time. So getting getting myself into therapy and going for relationship, I actually thought I was going for a relationship. And I was really calling for for self-care and events really became that where I was like, Hey, I'm not doing the things I need to do in my life to make sure that I feel good and feel like myself.

Dr. Liz:
Right? And let's just take a second to normalize all of that, because what you just said is so important that when somebody is experiencing mental health concerns and I talk about this occasionally on my Instagram, that there it really does influence the relational dynamic. This is not when somebody is depressed, when they're anxious. It's not something that only they go through.

Dr. Liz:
It often results in maybe them creating unnecessary conflict with their partner, or as you're saying, withdrawing from their partner and lower sex drive. And I think that for both men and women and I think that that is so important as well, because that physical intimacy piece is really important part of connection. And so for individuals like you're describing who maybe don't talk openly about I'm experiencing anxiety or depression, I just don't want to have sex with you, that is so much rejection for the partner on the receiving end of that and then so much shame, especially as you're saying with these the societal messages is so much shame for a man that he feels like,

Dr. Liz:
what's wrong with me that I don't want to have sex? I mean, that there are so many mixed messages that go on with that. And so I love that you're pointing all of that out, that mental health is not specific to the individual, but it really does influence the whole relationship.

Nick Thompson:
I completely agree. And I learned again, like I learned that a lot, reflecting back on other things that had happened in my life to like even realize, my God, that is a thing. But that's something I need to talk about and figure out.

Dr. Liz:
Right. Did you guys do couples counseling at that time or were you mostly individual working on.

Nick Thompson:
It was, yeah. It was individual at that time. I'd actually not done had I don't know, I had not done couples counseling at all until getting married.

Dr. Liz:
Okay. And are you open to talking about your attachment style and like.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Liz:
That for you.

Nick Thompson:
And this is I think I told you a couple of weeks ago, it's all happening in real time. But, you know, the funny thing is I went into my therapist's office and I was like, hey, like, I think I'm the avoidant attachment style. And I'm like, Do you know about attachment sounds? And she's like, I pulled out a book and told you to look this up three years ago and you came back and you said, No, that's not me.

Dr. Liz:
You weren't ready yet.

Nick Thompson:
I wasn't. No, I really wasn't ready. And so, you know, it's interesting. And again, like, I think that's the sign of a good therapist to I think the amount of time she's like, when you're ready, this is something we need to talk about.

Dr. Liz:
She meets you where you're at. And that's that is a powerful thing. So avoidant attachment, how does that show up for you? What are some of the behaviors that come along with being avoidant?

Nick Thompson:
that's a great, great question. So I am I, I consider myself avoidant attachment style for my own research from my, you know, few weeks of casual once in a while conversations with my therapist and the way that this shows up and by the way doesn't just show up in your partner relationships, it shows up with your family and shows up with your friends and like realizing all of this stuff, I'm like, okay.

Nick Thompson:
Like this even goes back to when I'm I'm depressed and I don't want to see my friends. Why don't I want to see them? Because I don't want to confront them with this thing that I'm going through because I don't I want to avoid it. Right? And so it's like very weird the way you see that, the way that they show up.

Nick Thompson:
But basically for me, when there's a conflict that arises, it's really hard for me, especially if I don't see it coming. It's very hard for me or if it's, you know, I'm talking about it's hard for me to like sit there in that moment and talk about it. So I want to avoid it. I want to leave. I want to go take a walk.

Nick Thompson:
I want to think about it, and I want to really formulate my reaction to it before. I just am reactive because I used to be much more reactive and I've learned to like to like, stop, think, take a walk, don't pay attention to your phone, don't be distracted. Just give yourself that time. The process. So when you're in a relationship or a friendship or a family, for me, I want to avoid the conflict.

Nick Thompson:
I don't want to have the conversation. I especially don't want a habit if it's unexpected. And I you know, I just I avoid it like I want to avoid it. And you know that that's difficult, especially depending on the attachment style that you're connected with.

Dr. Liz:
Yes. And beautiful point. And I was going to say, how do you see this impacting? And obviously everyone you interact with has a different attachment styles. How do you see this often influencing though your partners historically, when you do withdraw, what do you usually what maybe what waves does that create? You know, how does it further exacerbate whatever's going on with that?

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I think it's of course, going to depend on the partner. So I could, you know, and I think back across, you know, I've had I, I have had long relationships. So there's, there's like different levels of this. But I think like one of the things that happens is that I've learned to do through therapy is to communicate that I need some time and that's okay.

Nick Thompson:
And so to be like, I'm not ready to engage in this right now. But I will say that the other thing that I notice when I reflect upon this and again, this is all very fresh in the last maybe 4 to 6 weeks, I've kind of like clicked on this. I would I would get very defensive and I would I would leave or I would walk away or I'd say, I'm not talking about this anymore.

Nick Thompson:
And, you know, in the time I was thinking to myself, this is a way to preserve and protect myself, but now I am aware of it. So I try to ask for the time. So it depends. It depends on the relationship, right. Like, but I'm I'm more than comfortable saying I'm not comfortable talking about this right now. Can we talk later or I'm I need to formulate my thoughts on this.

Nick Thompson:
Can can I have some time.

Dr. Liz:
Right. And that that offer to come back or that even reassurance that you'll be back can make all the difference for the often an anxious partner who's going to be on the opposite side of the abortion, That's generally how that turns out. And so for for an anxious individual, even wherever they fall in the continuum of anxious, but if they're in a relationship with an avoidant and the avoidant removes and self from the relationship or from the situation, that triggers a rejection, abandonment, all those things that often causes then that other individual maybe to get bigger, louder, maybe to start to follow you, which is the exact opposite of what you need.

Dr. Liz:
I mean in that really.

Nick Thompson:
And you're doing need to be clear, you're doing the exact opposite of what they need, which is why, like I wish I had this knowledge.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah.

Nick Thompson:
Rather than a few weeks. Because I feel like if you if you understand this, you can really talk it through and give the reassurance to the anxious partner, the anxious partner can understand that you just need time. And it's not that's not you're coming back to your point, right?

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. And that is one of the most powerful things that really you can say, is that I will be back. And really what you're talking about. I just want to I just want to explain real quick for listeners that really the attachment theory and the relational programing and how that goes hand in hand. And so what you're describing is that the way that you show up when you're in a threat state, when you're faced with something uncomfortable, is by withdrawing and avoiding it.

Dr. Liz:
And that comes from what you learned through childhood, the way that you kept yourself safe and that that behavior carries with you until you have awareness around it, which you are beautifully doing now, and can start to shift that. But then starting to shift it like you're saying, as something as little but as powerful, as reassuring, I will be back or reassuring, like I need a second to think about that before we go any further.

Dr. Liz:
And it sounds like that's really the work that you're doing, is not only changing, working to change your attachment style towards secure, but you're trying to be a lot more sensitive to your future partners, you know, whatever that looks like for them as well.

Nick Thompson:
That's exactly right. And this is not like I think so, you know, naming it step one, understanding it step to understanding your role in it, probably step three, Step four, identifying how you you need to communicate it. And then step five, like moving yourself into maybe secure, right? So it isn't it isn't easy. Like I've identified it, I've named it and I'm I'm like, I should probably behave in this way.

Nick Thompson:
So, you know, applying it consistently takes time. And so I don't know, you know, in my next relationship how much I'll be able to apply it, but I feel like it'll be better than it's been before.

Dr. Liz:
And you'll practice. And that's what I tell my clients all the time, is I have all the knowledge in the world and I still struggle. I still struggle with attachment. I still struggle with how I show up when I'm feeling my deepest fears, you know, when there's this threat in front of me. And so, yes, let's really normalize that.

Dr. Liz:
This you will likely experience that. But the difference is and one of the most profound things is that you have awareness around it. And when I talk with clients about being aware of red flags and in their current or future relationships, red flags can and will exist. But does that other person have awareness around their own red flags?

Dr. Liz:
Are they demonstrating intentional efforts towards change, which is exactly what you're doing? And that makes it a lot easier. It's maybe not in the moment, but it makes the big picture a lot easier to be like. But but he's aware of it and he's trying and he's able to come back and acknowledge what went wrong, why and how he's going to do it differently in the future.

Dr. Liz:
That is incomplete. You're never relationships will never be perfect. That is a complete game changer.

Nick Thompson:
I hope so. I think I think you're right that even in other areas, right, is like the application is the hard part. That's the practice, right? You can sit you know, I'll use a football analogy here. You can sit there and you can game plan all day. But when you get out there on the field, if you're in practice, your game plan doesn't matter.

Dr. Liz:
Right? Yeah, you're exactly right. So tell me what what have been like a couple of your biggest struggles in this process of self-discovery, but then also trying to practice these new behaviors? Where have you found it most difficult?

Nick Thompson:
So I always say everyone's a work in progress, myself included. When I try to think about the things that I've learned and share the things that I've learned and what's been difficult, it's all difficult. Like you spend most of your life. I feel like in situations that make you uncomfortable and that challenge your your sense of self, that challenge your belief system, that challenge the behaviors that you've developed over time.

Nick Thompson:
And for me, the hardest thing is remembering and applying the things that I've learned in the moment when they're happening. Because I did used to be very reactive. I used to have a temper that would, you know, never like violent, like I've never hit anyone in my life. I've been punched in the face, but I didn't do anything back.

Nick Thompson:
But, you know, I used to kind of get frustrated very quickly and very explosive. And that was kind of a, you know, again, not to cut the fam, we're all very close, but like it was, it was at times explosive growing up, you know, being a teenager, living with my mom and two sisters most of the time. And then, you know, my dad the other times and all this stuff that we had going on family wise, it was hard.

Nick Thompson:
And I actually was talking about my to my mom about this a couple of weeks ago. And I was telling her I'm like, you know, I've worked so hard to like, be calm after growing up the way that we did. And like, I don't ever want to lose that. And I you know, there's times where I feel like it starts to slip away when I when I let go of my self-care regimen, when I when I don't keep the boundaries that I know are so important to my well-being and the structure that I spent so many years putting in place to make sure that I'm not like that anymore.

Nick Thompson:
So I think, you know, the consistency is the hardest thing, because if you're if you put all the work in and you get everything where you want it, you know, it's still possible that you let it all go and that's on you. You know, that's on I this is not always the most popular thing, but like, we're responsible for our own triggers.

Nick Thompson:
Like we can't expect other people to adjust because I'm, you know, I get angry when someone says this or I'm avoidant when someone does that, like I have to own that. And know how to react and behave in the moment. And that's the hardest thing to do, especially having come from a different background and having to have learned these skills.

Nick Thompson:
I have to keep practicing them or they slip.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I mean, in that emotional regulation piece, like, like you're saying, a lot of us were not taught how to regulate emotions. A lot of us were actually sent away for big emotions, which I work a lot with my clients on, you know, that crying or tantrums. And that is really culturally what we do. That is, I mean, the time out for a child.

Dr. Liz:
That is what that, you know, sending them away for their big emotions. And so because of that, we don't learn how to work through them. We just either avoid or we get explosive or whatever that looks like. But it sounds like you figured out some ways that to regulate your nervous system so that maybe in those moments when there is an opportunity for you to be reactive, you're able to choose a different path.

Nick Thompson:
I definitely try. I'm not perfect. It doesn't always work. So, you know, one thing I actually I want to ask you about that. So it's interesting this is interesting to me because like one of the ways that I self-regulate is I step away, which is also feeding into the avoidant avoidant attachment style. So like, how do you how do you self preserve in a sense, but then also, you know, respect your partner and your own attachment style so that you can not kind of get caught out.

Nick Thompson:
Because if I'm right, if I, if I'm in a conversation that's making me uncomfortable or a conflict, I want to leave, but also for me to calm myself and not be reactive, like I need to take a step back.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Which actually is exactly what I encourage people to do because there's nothing wrong with that. When you are activated in that way, your amygdala, the emotional center of your brain, it it reacts. And so it's the fight or flight response is happening. You probably feel like the discomfort in your stomach, in your chest, in your throat, all of that is your body's being flooded with these biochemicals, with adrenaline, cortisol, Nora, epinephrine, everything you need to protect yourself.

Dr. Liz:
And so for someone, especially who you're trying not to be reactive, so you're like, okay, there is a shit ton of chaos going on in my body that I don't know what to do with, so I need to remove myself. That is okay, because that is how by removing yourself from the threat, you give yourself the opportunity for your prefrontal cortex to come back online and you can start thinking logically and you probably notice that when you remove yourself probably within a few minutes, depending on how big it is, you can feel the hormones and all of the biochemicals dissipating.

Dr. Liz:
But the biggest thing goes back to what we were talking about earlier. It's having that it's letting your partner know that you'll be back. But even beyond that, it's sometimes setting these ground rules prior to even going into this. So they know, like your partner's very aware of this is what I need and I can completely relate to that.

Dr. Liz:
Like spaces exactly what I need when I'm feeling reactive. So I we, you know, if when I'm in a relationship that conversation is had that this is how what I need in order to calm down and so you give them the disclaimer in advance and then you come back. But the other piece of that is coming back is like not coming back two weeks later, Right?

Dr. Liz:
Coming back. Right. There's an established when you're laying out the ground rules, there's usually an established let's come back together in 20 minutes. If we're not ready, well, at least touch base and then do it again.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I learned. I've learned. I learned that too. Yeah, that's another one. I will say, like in the moment, it's very, very hard to regulate yourself, to be like, I need a half an hour and I can think back to one relationship that I had where I went on a half an hour walk and like, you know, she was upset and in retrospect, like, she had every right to be upset.

Nick Thompson:
I literally it's just like I'm going on a walk and I'd say for how long? I didn't say anything. And honestly, she was probably like, I don't even know what her attachments are that everything. But that doesn't matter. But I just remember like being out there and like getting a text that, Hey, are you ever coming back and had been like 20 minutes?

Nick Thompson:
And I was like, I should have just said, I'm going to go for a half hour walk. I'm going to clear my mind, Let's come back and talk about that. And it probably would have de-escalated the whole situation.

Dr. Liz:
Sure. And that, again, that takes the practice, right? That takes because, yes, that's a big part of the work that I've done is, though I still will get reactive. I've done a lot of work around asking for the time out or, you know, like, okay, we like let's pause this before it is irreparable and come back, do it again.

Dr. Liz:
Because that's that's a huge part of that. When you both are explosive saying and doing things. I mean, when the case is out of the tube, that's yeah, that's rough.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I, I think more than anything, you know what I, what I've learned and probably more recently is that the words that I say actually have meaning, whether I'm upset, how I mean them or how I don't mean them in the moment. And I try to you just in general and you've seen it a few times here as I'm trying to find the right words to like talk about growing up.

Nick Thompson:
But also, you know, like not not just the family and, you know, like, listen, all of our families, like what they did, right? What did it they did the best they could. They didn't know any better. And, you know, I think back to that and I try to, you know, regulate myself, not using filler words and slowly, carefully choose my words so that I'm talking about how I'm feeling and that projecting something on to someone else, not always easy and not always successful.

Nick Thompson:
But that's the mindset. I try to dig into it.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, and that's another great point when it comes to even like your intentions, intentions don't always matter. Like if, if what you said was hurtful and screwed up no matter what you intended, it was still hurtful and screwed up. So how do you think that all this work that you've done on attachment relationships, how is that going to influence your future partner choice?

Dr. Liz:
I know that's probably a ways down the road, but how is that going to play a role in it?

Nick Thompson:
I, I don't have a full answer for you. Like I said, I'm a work in progress. But one thing I have learned and I know I need to do is I need to be open about things. I don't need to hide the fact that I have bad days. I don't need to hide the fact that sometimes I'm totally lost.

Nick Thompson:
I don't know. I don't need to hide the attachment style, you know, I just need to explain. Like I'm learning about this, I'm learning about myself, I'm working on myself, and I know I have a tendency to do this and I'm going to do my best to not be like that anymore, you know, And then ask ask for the same thing that, you know, maybe they don't know their attachments now, and that's okay.

Nick Thompson:
But are they going to be able to articulate what triggers them, what upsets them, but then also, you know, do the work and continue to work on themselves? I think it's so important for everyone as a human being to just always be working on yourself. You're never a finished product.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, absolutely something. I work with my clients on frequently is something and I've done a post about it as well. But there are five needs there, five once in their five boundaries when it comes to dating. So I won't make you go through five of all of them. But I would be interested if you could think of maybe two for the wants, needs and boundaries.

Dr. Liz:
And the way that I describe this is the wants are are things that you. Well, I guess let's start with the needs that the needs are the non-negotiable so they have to happen. So for me, somebody has to be emotionally intelligent. They have to have a job. They you know, they have to be self aware, like those would be some of my needs and the wants are, okay, well, my needs are met.

Dr. Liz:
What are some of my preferences? So what height or esthetics or whatever that comes along with it And then the boundaries there, those are the dealbreakers. And so, you know, whatever that might be of like I will not be with somebody X, Y and Z, what comes to mind.

Nick Thompson:
Not. Yeah, know.

Dr. Liz:
That.

Nick Thompson:
So there's three things that I know I need in a relationship. I'll start there. These, these took time to figure out in their high level, but I can explain what I mean with each of our number one, I need trust. And that's not just trust. That should come with any relationship that you're not going to disrespect the relationship.

Nick Thompson:
You're not going to cheat. You're not going to partaken in anything that disrespects the relationship and know that I'm going to be the same way. So that trust goes so far beyond a word like it's just I know wherever you are, whenever you're doing, you're being respectful of the relationship. Yeah. So that's kind of how I define trust.

Nick Thompson:
The other one is one of my lovely they're actually the next two are like love languages, which people have takes on those. I think there's learning to take out of it. But ultimately my two pretty close love languages, one of them is words of affirmation, but I don't need someone to really be like, Nick, you look so handsome.

Nick Thompson:
You're sort of like, I struggle internally so hard to try and do the right thing and not just for me, but that's part of it, but for other people. So like someone saying, like, Nick, I think you're doing the right thing here, even if it's hard. I you're doing the right thing here. That means a lot to me.

Nick Thompson:
So I need quality time with that. I kind of bundle those together. I'm introverted. I don't always want to be out and about doing something social, like I like to play a game, I like to watch a movie, I like to cook together, like so I need those kind of things, you know, really much like non-negotiable.

Dr. Liz:
And I love that. I mean, the love languages they really are, regardless of people's takes on them. They really are important. But I like how you specify that because that's when I'm working with people on love languages. We always break it down in the way that you did because you're right. Words of affirmation is a great example of that.

Dr. Liz:
For some people, it's you look so attractive today and for other people, I'm so proud of you. You work so hard on that. And so it really is specific. And so I love how you've you've really defined that. So those are your needs. Was there another need or those are the I think.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I think I nailed it. Yeah.

Dr. Liz:
What are a couple. What so what are a couple preferences.

Nick Thompson:
So some of the preferences are you need to have your own hobbies. You need to be kind of like you like self aware that like the relationship isn't the end all, be all and I think that you have to, of course, like have emotional intelligence as well. I kind of lump all that together. Another one is I want someone that maybe they don't enjoy or care about the same things I care about or enjoy, but I want them to celebrate in my excitement around them with me.

Nick Thompson:
And I'm the same way. Like there's things that I do that I don't really have any interest in doing, but I know they matter to my partner. And if I see if I see her enjoying something or having a good time doing something like that brings me joy. So I really I should be in need. Like I really like maybe I'd really want someone that that feels that way too, and gets joy from my joy the way that I would get joy from their joy.

Dr. Liz:
And then it sounds like a need.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, exactly. And then someone who who likes to like I like to move around a lot. Not houses, but like I like to on walks. I go in a couple blocks a day. I like to just like wander around. I like to go without a plan and maybe I get food, maybe I take a long walk, maybe they take a short walk.

Nick Thompson:
So some of that that well, one wants me to do that on my own because that's the way I regulate myself, but also some that wants to just kind of pop around with me.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, yeah. You post a lot of that, like in your stories and stuff. You're you're always out and about farmer's market or meal. Yeah. Yeah. That's that I mean that's a great one. It sounds like a lot of your needs and once kind of mesh into like the idea of interdependence, right. So you are you and they are them and then you get to be a we and you get to be excited for each other and rooting for each other, but also very aware of your own interests as well.

Nick Thompson:
Exactly. That's exactly it.

Dr. Liz:
So boundaries is what comes to mind when you think of a couple. So I mean boundaries in a general sense, right? So these are more like the deal breaker of I just can't be in relationship with X, Y, and Z.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, I, I can't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't risk as high as doesn't respect my boundaries. Sure I don't. If someone is hurtful or mean spirited or and that doesn't mean that you can't say things that hurt like we all do it. We talked about it earlier, but like I don't want someone who's who's mean spirited and then I.

Nick Thompson:
I don't want a person who is I don't know how to say it's the right way. So, like, I don't want someone who isn't going to respect my space to do things on my own because I'm introverted. So I do like I like to write. You know, I just got inspired about thinking today about, you know, my, my inner peace.

Nick Thompson:
And it's believed me. I've been challenged a lot, but it's something that I'm like, you know what? I have to stick to that I have to stay true to myself. Stick, because that's when I'm home. So like someone that doesn't can do something, that doesn't contribute to that, but takes away from that. You know, if you're saying if your glasses empty, you don't have any water to give anybody else.

Nick Thompson:
And then another boundary is I would like someone who can say like, no, no to me, no to other people and really respect themselves and then respect the relationship in the sense of like sometimes, you know, we need to put boundaries around the people that are asking too much of us as individuals and as as a couple. And I think that's super important to know.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, for sure. So somebody who is able to respect your boundaries but also set their own boundaries and it sounds even even with you that that's a big deal, that they have the ability to do that. And we I mean, yes, that that's a really hard thing. Again, going back to upbringing and for a lot of us with codependent tendencies, myself included, it is really hard for me to say no or to disappoint or to not.

Dr. Liz:
People please. And so that yeah, somebody who has worked on that and is able to do it in spite of the discomfort.

Nick Thompson:
Boundaries are the most important thing that I've learned in therapy over the last six years, because I would let people take and take and take and and I'm an empathetic person. So like, I feel the way people feel. I'm a product of my surroundings. And if you attract people that take. And so, like I learned real early, like I got to put boundaries around certain family members, I got to put boundaries around certain friends.

Nick Thompson:
I don't need to pick up the phone every time someone calls. I don't need to reply to a text message the moment I see it, it yeah, It's not my responsibility to help regulate someone else. That doesn't mean I don't want to. But like, those types of boundaries have changed my life and they've really given me the space to make sure I can take care of myself.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, a great point that even the texting thing, such such a society of like, did you get my texts? Like I sent you a text right into your reply and it's that that becomes an issue. The phone calls, all of that and that takes a lot of cognizance and practice and awareness to be able to do that because especially for somebody with a lot of empathy, the fear is if I set a boundary, they're going to think, I mean, or they're going to be mad at me, or they're going to.

Nick Thompson:
Say, you're doing it to hurt them. Yeah, like a boundary isn't to hurt someone, it's to protect someone.

Dr. Liz:
Both Right?

Nick Thompson:
That's the.

Dr. Liz:
People.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah, I love that. Are there any books that you would recommend that are specific to your relationship, discovery and journey? Any interesting ones?

Nick Thompson:
I haven't got back, so I'll. I had stuff on my podcast. I'm reading Soul Broken right now, which is her guidebook to Ambiguous Grief, which is a type of grief where, if you think of it this way, the person is not who you believed they were or knew them as, and then they're still alive. So if you think of, you know, like drug addicts or you think of someone with dementia or somebody who, you know, is out there, but you could run into them, but it's not the person that you thought they were.

Nick Thompson:
And the things that I'm learning going through this book and there's exercises in each chapter and talking to Steph, you know, and hearing her story about how she found out that her husband, whom she was very happy with, was not the person she thought he was. And I'm not going to tell her story. She tells it on my podcast and throughout her book.

Nick Thompson:
But she was going through this challenge of being like I could, you know, basically run into him in the grocery store, but I don't know this man. And, you know, going through that process of sort of identifying like, I'm feeling these these certain kind of ways, you know, I'm I'm going through a divorce and it sucks and it's hard.

Nick Thompson:
And hearing someone else's story that, you know, elements are relatable is very it's very comforting. And it's challenging me to sort of think about things in a different way, but also giving you the space to sort of learn from it. And I think that's a great use of, you know, her experience and sharing that with the world for sure.

Dr. Liz:
I think one of the most powerful things that we can do in our journeys is have our perspectives challenged, that we can look at things in a different way through a different lens. And that just opens up a whole new world can be really, really empowering and really healing for sure.

Dr. Liz:
Yeah. Where, where can people find you ice on your social media or online? We're going to be found.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, you can find me. You can just Google these days and I show up with this crazy, but you can find me on Instagram and Thompson 513 And that's where I do primarily share some content. You can also check out my podcast Conversations with Nick Thompson available on YouTube and all podcasting platforms. And that's where we're having those hopefully stigma removing types of conversations around health, mental health, holistic medicine, news and politics, the media, all of that.

Dr. Liz:
Yes. And it it is so interesting. I love your podcast and I love your Instagram. Well, I love how you vacillate between this is my everyday life. And also here's some tips. Here's some ideas on how you can show differently.

Nick Thompson:
Yeah, and I will say like I'm a normal dude. People get very surprised by that. I guess.

Dr. Liz:
So I would agree. All right. Well, thank you, Nick. I really again, appreciate you being here. I appreciate you taking the time and I appreciate you being so vulnerable with all your insights around your journey. It means a lot to me. Yeah.

Nick Thompson:
Well, thank you for having me on. I appreciate it. And I'm happy to to share my experience. I'm a work in progress, figuring it out just like. Yes.

Dr. Liz:
Absolutely. Until next time.

Nick Thompson:
Awesome. Thank you.

Dr. Liz:
Thank you again to Nick Thompson for sharing his story with us today. And thank you all for listening to this first episode of Relatable Relationships. Unfiltered to you. Get more relatable content. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel and check us out on Instagram and.